Cowboy Builders and smalll claims courts

kaya

For instance you mention the lack of vapour barrier to the flat roof. How do you know it is missing?
after he left i studied the spec sheet that accompanies the architects drawing and googled what a vapour barrier is and does, in the garage area where the roof hasnt been internally boarded and plastered the bottom deck plywood layer is visible and there is a gap between the boards where i can see the exposed cellotex which should either have a vapour control layer below it so it wouldn't be visible to me or all the joints should have been taped, i remember when they fitted the cellotex and it was just screwed directly down to the joists through the plywood deck and nothing was taped or joined(he was moaning about the cost of the sheets and said his roofer friend told him it needed to be 150mm not the 120mm stated in the plans as the regs had recently changed), i didnt even know what a vapour control barrier was before he left site and im going on what i have found on various suppliers websites

Is it a warm roof or a cold roof?
its a warm deck construction
You then go on to talk about a discussion with building control about the insulation between the rafters (pitched roof?) and them not mentioning the vapour barrier. What exactly did it say on the "architects" drawings and why was the builder discussing changes with the building control officer? If you were party to these discussions did you agree to the changes?

this is to do with the part of the pitched roof in the kitchen(its a flat roof coming away from the house then a tied pitch whefe it ends), the architects drawings do not mention vapour barrier for the pitched roof (that has a breathable membrane under the tiles which i understand is a different thing altogether and was fitted) just that it needs to be seperated from the flat roof with a layer of pvc but state the vpc needs to be fitted under the insulation and fully bonded to the deck, there wern't any changes that i know of or were party to, he casually asked the building officer what size celotex he needed to put between the rafters for the pitched roof , followed their advice(no idea why he didnt refer to the architects spec sheet) and then plasterboarded over it, now i have read the spec sheet there should have been an additional 50mm of cellotex over the rafters of the pitched roof before the plasterboard was added, he owns a mini digger, dumper, old range rover and a van/trailer, a 1/4 share in a 30k sunseeker yahct in portsmouth (i had a friend do some work on the engines for him ) and his house which he is about to sell and downsize as his grown up kids have left home is worth about 3/4 million (he kept saying how he only owed 30k on the mortgage), i think he must be in his late sixties and have no reason to disbelieve him about his assets.

kaya

Doozergirl wrote: »

Where do you put £55k in cash?!

i have a gun licence and a thick double keyed police approved strong steel safe bolted to the wall to keep them in which is where i kept it, if anyone who owns a gun licence calls the police a red flag pops up on their screen and everything they have on duty(including armed response) is diverted to that address instanty , not sure if that's to stop the guns being stolen or the owner using them but either way it makes things a litte safer

teneighty

kaya wrote: »

For instance you mention the lack of vapour barrier to the flat roof. How do you know it is missing?
after he left i studied the spec sheet that accompanies the architects drawing and googled what a vapour barrier is and does, in the garage area where the roof hasnt been internally boarded and plastered the bottom deck plywood layer is visible and there is a gap between the boards where i can see the exposed cellotex which should either have a vapour control layer below it so it wouldn't be visible to me or all the joints should have been taped, i remember when they fitted the cellotex and it was just screwed directly down to the joists through the plywood deck and nothing was taped or joined(he was moaning about the cost of the sheets and said his roofer friend told him it needed to be 150mm not the 120mm stated in the plans as the regs had recently changed), i didnt even know what a vapour control barrier was before he left site and im going on what i have found on various suppliers websites

Is it a warm roof or a cold roof?
its a warm deck construction
You then go on to talk about a discussion with building control about the insulation between the rafters (pitched roof?) and them not mentioning the vapour barrier. What exactly did it say on the "architects" drawings and why was the builder discussing changes with the building control officer? If you were party to these discussions did you agree to the changes?

this is to do with the part of the pitched roof in the kitchen(its a flat roof coming away from the house then a tied pitch whefe it ends), the architects drawings do not mention vapour barrier for the pitched roof (that has a breathable membrane under the tiles which i understand is a different thing altogether and was fitted) just that it needs to be seperated from the flat roof with a layer of pvc but state the vpc needs to be fitted under the insulation and fully bonded to the deck, there wern't any changes that i know of or were party to, he casually asked the building officer what size celotex he needed to put between the rafters for the pitched roof , followed their advice(no idea why he didnt refer to the architects spec sheet) and then plasterboarded over it, now i have read the spec sheet there should have been an additional 50mm of cellotex over the rafters of the pitched roof before the plasterboard was added, he owns a mini digger, dumper, old range rover and a van/trailer, a 1/4 share in a 30k sunseeker yahct in portsmouth (i had a friend do some work on the engines for him ) and his house which he is about to sell and downsize as his grown up kids have left home is worth about 3/4 million (he kept saying how he only owed 30k on the mortgage), i think he must be in his late sixties and have no reason to disbelieve him about his assets.

I think that you are rapidly becoming an expert. With that level of detail Bob the Cowboy Builder doesn't stand a chance. Good Luck, I hope you nail the scumbag.

kaya

thanks, im only trying to get what i paid for done to a reasonable standard, i wasn't expecting the best job in the world but i do want it to meet the standards it should and last

Furts

To try and put things in a nutshell, you should have arranged a contract, and you should have arranged supervision/inspection. You would find that cancelling a contract on grounds of incompetence is nigh on impossible. Payments should have been made only for work that was satisfactory. Defective work would be formally notified and the builder given the chance to rectify this.


This mechanism would have either weeded out the dodgy builder long ago or got them to pull their socks up.


To now claim incompetence you need an expert report stating all that is wrong and what you expect to put it right. This should be served on the builder with a time frame to put matters right. If he refuses, and you have an audit trail, then you have a strong position for court. However this strong position is far removed from actually getting any recompense.


In essence you are shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. You may get somewhere but the law, and the courts cannot perform miracles now.

Annie1960

You do not need to go to CAB to get advice - they have a national consumer helpline you can ring.

https://www.gov.uk/citizens-advice-consumer-service

They will talk you through the pre-action protocols you need to follow.

1. write to him asking him to come back and complete the work to the proper standard. Give him 14 days to make arrangements with you to do this.

2. Include in this letter a request that he go to an ADR with you such as mediation.

Also, check your various insurance policies (household, car, any organisations you belong to) as there may be a legal service included in your policy.

Phone around a few local solicitors who will give you a quick free chat on the phone outlining what they can offer, but they often charge over £200 per hour plus VAT if you go ahead with them.

You cannot break it down into several small claims, as far as I understand, it is one claim. You could restrict it to £10k overall, but in your position this may not be an option.

Law Express do telephone help beyond the stage CAB can help with, they cost about £35 per call.

http://www.lawexpress.co.uk/You

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

kaya

If i came to repair your air conditioning system how would you know if the job had been done to a reasonable standard before you paid me? its simply not feesable to expect people to know everything about everythng (if we did we wouldnt need to pay people to do it). I get your point but as a homeowner i can't be held responsible for checking the technical aspects of everything and as a tradesman the responsibility is on him to complete the works agreed to a reasonable standard. If you get your gearbox repaired and after paying the garage in full 5 miles down the road it seizes up is it your fault for not inspecting before paying ?
When i have three quotes to repair each aspect i will send them to him recorded post giving him two weeks to respond with his reccomended course of action and a further two weeks to compete the repairs, i'm happy to get an "expert" report although i would think that three quotes from other professionals would suffice, i haven't cancelled any contract due to incompetence it was him who walked off of the job when i refused him any more money, i have a schedule of works he wrote out which clearly shows he is actually ahead with any payments for the work he has done. If i employ a childminder should i then employ someone to inspect the childminder? and someone else to inspect the inspector? he has been paid for the agreed work he took on in the capacity of a professional and competent tradesperson which i have a paper trail for the issue is that he hasn't done it to the agreed standard or even to current building regs, my issue is if the bills add up to more than the 10k allowed in a small claims court (that's if he refuses to put it all right) can i claim once for the heating, again for the roofing etc? you're seeing this as a dispute between two parties when its actualy a consumer rights issue, i have paid for a job that he hasn't done correctly, it was only a few weeks ago he walked off of site not a year ago. Im not claiming for stuff that looks bad im after work being done to an acceptable standard that he has accepted payment for

Annie1960

kaya wrote: »

i'm happy to get an "expert" report although i would think that three quotes from other professionals would suffice,

Under no circumstances get an expert report yourself. These can only be ordered by a Court these days, and you will do your case damage if you take unilateral action on this.

Ignore some of the trolls on this forum who just want to criticize.

my issue is if the bills add up to more than the 10k allowed in a small claims court (that's if he refuses to put it all right) can i claim once for the heating, again for the roofing etc?

I am in a similar position to you, but several months ahead. I have looked into all these issues, and no, you cannot break your claim down. You can restrict your claim to £10k, but can only claim one £10k against him. Alternatively you can claim more but you will have all the costs. Talk to a solicitor.

you're seeing this as a dispute between two parties when its actualy a consumer rights issue, i have paid for a job that he hasn't done correctly, it was only a few weeks ago he walked off of site not a year ago.
Correct, the heading on your letters should be:

Letter before action, - Consumer Rights Act 2015.
Ignore the trolls who just want to criticise. They often given stupid advice as they don't understand what they are talking about.

QUOTE]

Doozergirl

Annie, there are no trolls on this thread. You can be as helpful as you like, but repeatedly referring to some valuable posters of this board as trolls is not right.

You may not agree with people, but it would reflect better on you to say why, rather than name call.

Annie1960

Doozergirl wrote: »

Annie, there are no trolls on this thread. You can be as helpful as you like, but repeatedly referring to some valuable posters of this board as trolls is not right.

You may not agree with people, but it would reflect better on you to say why, rather than name call.

I beg to differ. One of the people on here who is making unhelpful comments also did the same to me when I posted with a similar issue last year. I have now taken much legal advice and it turns out the poster was wrong on many points. The same person is also doing the same to Kaya, which will be of no help.

Some advice is downright wrong and will harm Kaya's case, such as unilaterally getting an expert report. There is a protocol where the Court can order one of these, and there are very strict rules about such things, including the costs. Kaya could automatically lose a case by going ahead with this without the court's permission.