Complex Battery project HELP!

Strider590

GunJack wrote: »

no, incorrect, they're usually caused by numpties carrying fully-charged "spare" batteries LOOSE IN POCKETS!!!!!! along with keys, coins, etc. There are several caused by users of mechanical mods (which have no protection circuitry, hence "mechanical") who build inappropriate coils which over-stress the battery in terms of current draw, others who forget to lock the fire button to prevent accidental firing.....for the smaller ego-style batteries using too-high charging currents and unattended charging is the most common cause - these are the ones that have caused a couple of house fires

I could go on, but it is actually very rare to be caused by the battery itself, 99.9% of the time it's by user error one way or the other

A good quality 18650 would mean no need to carry spares and a good quality 18650 would have built in protection from short circuit and over charging.

True some come without a protection device built in, but they should only be used in devices that have no protection of their own.

Also there a cheap chargers available which due to the slighly underground an largely unregulated nature of vaping, do find their way into peoples homes and this worries me greatly.
I have one that came with the cheap 18650s I bought and when I opened it up, it was scary, no fuse, no overheat protection and the mains wires were "tacked" onto pins just millimetres from the metal charging tabs. Absolutely LETHAL and from what I can make out they're being sold in vaping shops up and down the country.

The reason these things aren't being regulated properly is not just because they're relatively new, but because certain corporate entities want these things banned completely (and/or want to gain a monopoly on it) and they want to use these incidents as a platform to stand on when declaring them unsafe.

GunJack

Strider590 wrote: »

A good quality 18650 would mean no need to carry spares yes it does, for when you exhaust the charge in the one in your deviceand a good quality 18650 would have built in protection from short circuit and over charging. totally wrong, unprotected batteries are more common than protected, for all the applications where the protection is built in to the device

True some come without a protection device built in, but they should only be used in devices that have no protection of their own. wrong, protected batteries should only be used in devices without protection ctts, opposite of what you state.

Also there a cheap chargers available which due to the slighly underground an largely unregulated nature of vaping, do find their way into peoples homes and this worries me greatly.
I have one that came with the cheap 18650s I bought and when I opened it up, it was scary, no fuse, no overheat protection and the mains wires were "tacked" onto pins just millimetres from the metal charging tabs. Absolutely LETHAL and from what I can make out they're being sold in vaping shops up and down the country. 18650s and dodgy chargers have been around since before vaping...look at laptop battery packs, torches, bike lights, etc....can't blame vaping for this (other than there are more around overall than there used to be

The reason these things aren't being regulated properly is not just because they're relatively new, but because certain corporate entities want these things banned completely (and/or want to gain a monopoly on it) and they want to use these incidents as a platform to stand on when declaring them unsafe. at least this para. is partly true about vaping, in that the pharma & tobacco co's want the monopoly, but not about generic batteries & chargers

sorry, but you really ought to get your facts straight before posting...

Johnmcl7

GunJack wrote: »

Having been using 18650s for vapng for the last 4 years, I can safely say that current best value are Samsung 25R, get them from Gearbest (chinese co., well-known in vaping circles) or if you want a UK seller (other brands of battery also) (and almost double the price) look for Torchy the Battery Boy's ebay shop - he tests every type of battery before he sells them, also very good reputation in vaping (and cycle lights) circles:-

http://www.gearbest.com/18650-battery-samsung-25r-_gear/

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/big_f_d_d/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

I was just going to post a link to that seller but you beat me to it I use 18650 batteries for mountain bike lights and bought them from that seller without issue, you do need to avoid the really cheap Trustfire/Ultrafire batteries which have completely nonsense capacities.

Those Samsung batteries look cheap if they're decent and I'm needing some flat tops so think I'll give them a go.

John

GunJack

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

I was just going to post a link to that seller but you beat me to it I use 18650 batteries for mountain bike lights and bought them from that seller without issue, you do need to avoid the really cheap Trustfire/Ultrafire batteries which have completely nonsense capacities.

Those Samsung batteries look cheap if they're decent and I'm needing some flat tops so think I'll give them a go.

John

John, I've bought all bar 2 of my Sammy 25Rs from Gearbest, no probs at all with them

EdwardB

esuhl wrote: »

As above, last time I looked, the only suppliers of 18650 cells were Chinese brands. Mis-representing the capacity is so common that (it seems) everyone does it. Some of the more honest manufacturers/sellers even advertise things like "3000mAh cell (actually 2200mAh)"!

I don't actually know if they're the "genuine" article, and the capacity is undoubtedly exaggerated, but I've been using the UltraFire brand cells for a while and not had any problems. But maybe the concept of a "brand" in China is more akin to a label that anyone can use. Everything's a knock-off. :-/

One other thought... The existing protection/charging circuitry might be designed for cells of a particular capacity. Is it possible that the circuitry might not work properly with different capacity cells...? (I don't know enough about electronics to answer that.)

Thanks, I think that is very valid point,

Sadly eBay is no longer a safe place to trade.

We have 8gb memory products (SD flash and USB) being sold as 64gb because they have compression on them,

China has LOST IT'S REPUTATION by allowing this

I know on Iphone they recycle batteries and stick a label on them selling them as new higher power units.

I guess I need to find way to check mAh

I was looking at circuit, until I solder it off I can't see underside but there does not appear to be any IC's or anything, it has McNair which I am guessing is the manufactuer. I think there is no protection just a connection.

You can see they make such batteries for the same purpose,



Clearly wrapping them in tape prevents any one being swapped out and that might be good advice for me to do, replace all 4 at once.

EdwardB

OK so maybe I needed to be a bit clearer in my OP

Device is not vaping

My thoughts were for drills, lights and radios which come with their own very similar packs and their own chargers.

The problem with eBay is you really can't trust any sellers on there, ebay does not care, the other day I was looking for something, it was polluted with 12,000 duplicate items. Are we supposed to clean them up 2 at a time?

Then we have the people that "game" the search by putting a 0.99p sample with a product so it shows up first. One thing I respect about Google is that if you game them they ban you for life, not just your account, your credit card, identity, you are DONE.

So how can I believe a listing is what is says it is when they allow fake batteries and fake memory products.

Is this 8000mAh fake, how do I test the mAh?



What about these

I am still unclear on the impact of size, these look as if they are different sizes yet both say 8800mAh, if I connected four of these in parallel as people clear do would I end up with a 35200mAh batttery that lasted longer?

GunJack

I personally wouldn't trust 8800mAh in an 18650, as said above they top out around 3000-ish mAh. A 26650 is a different beast, but even they tend to top out around 4500-4700 mAh under test - have a look at some in that link, the seller has tested most of them and states the tested capacity in the item spec...

https://www.fasttech.com/search?26650%20battery

Johnmcl7

EdwardB - GunJack's posts are spot on and I'd go with their recommendations particularly the ebay seller and the specific batteries from Gearbest. You need to be careful with 18650 batteries as a lot of them are rubbish, they can often be identified by hugely overstated capacity and their performance is often terrible plus in some cases dangerous.

John

Strider590

EdwardB wrote: »

OK so maybe I needed to be a bit clearer in my OP

Device is not vaping

My thoughts were for drills, lights and radios which come with their own very similar packs and their own chargers.

The problem with eBay is you really can't trust any sellers on there, ebay does not care, the other day I was looking for something, it was polluted with 12,000 duplicate items. Are we supposed to clean them up 2 at a time?

Then we have the people that "game" the search by putting a 0.99p sample with a product so it shows up first. One thing I respect about Google is that if you game them they ban you for life, not just your account, your credit card, identity, you are DONE.

So how can I believe a listing is what is says it is when they allow fake batteries and fake memory products.

Is this 8000mAh fake, how do I test the mAh?



What about these

I am still unclear on the impact of size, these look as if they are different sizes yet both say 8800mAh, if I connected four of these in parallel as people clear do would I end up with a 35200mAh batttery that lasted longer?

Absolutely 100% Fake, you'll be very lucky if those have so muich as 1000mAh capacity.

forgotmyname

Those 8800mAh ultrafires are fake and you maybe lucky to get 80mAh. They wont put out the amperage of a decent battery either. Your not going to get a battery more than 3000mAh and your going to pay a pretty penny for them.
I got 2 free ultrafire batteries with a torch, they claim to be 6600mAh but in reality they are closer to 800.

I watched a video the other day where he put a paperclip across the battery terminals and there was a miniscule spark, barely visible. He did it with a decent battery and ZAPPP... a large spark and a cracking noise.

Yes you can save money by fitting cheap batteries. But they wont be cheap. Why not just plug it into the mains?

Your going to end up spending more and it will be larger than the current battery pack.

Want some decent 2000mAh to 2500mAh lithium cells? £6 - £9 Each... You have 9 of them?

And then there is the balance charging circuitry to ensure that every battery is the same voltage as well as the voltage not going above a set level and not dropping below a set level also. Run a lithium cell totally flat and it wont recharge. It may get hot trying and smoke and flames...

Buy a proper battery from a reputable source or use the mains..