Notice on rented property

wizzywig27

Hi all

I am looking for some advice really. I think I know the answer but thought I would ask anyway. I am currently in a rented house and looking to move (long story but there are a few issues with the property and she refuses to give us a new agreement). Our fixed term ended over a year ago and we have been on a rolling basis ever since. The original tenancy agreement states 'If the tenant intends to vacate at the end of the fixed term, or at any later date, he agrees to give the landlord at least two months prior notice in writing'. Whilst the tenancy is rolling the two months written notice must expire the day before the end of the rent due date' - does this mean that 1) we have to give two months notice, and 2) (or rent is due on the 28th) so does that mean we have to vacate on the 27th? This all seems pretty tight on when and how we can leave, i.e no flexibility.

On a side note the estate agents have verbally said to me previously that I have to give a months notice - but I do not have this in writing. Where do I stand with giving notice? I don't want to ask them to prompt them to think we are going to move and get the landlord chucking us out before we find somewhere, but how many decent places can you find that are willing to wait two months for you to move in??

Any advice would be appreciated guys.

Thanks

Cakeguts

You have to give one month's notice.

wizzywig27

what makes you say that buddy?

G_M

wizzywig27 wrote: »

......Our fixed term ended over a year ago and we have been on a rolling basis ever since.

The original tenancy agreement states 'If the tenant intends to vacate at the end of the fixed term, or at any later date, he agrees to give the landlord at least two months prior notice in writing'. Whilst the tenancy is rolling the two months written notice must expire the day before the end of the rent due date'

- does this mean that 1) we have to give two months notice, and 2) (or rent is due on the 28th) so does that mean we have to vacate on the 27th? .....

Thanks

It would seem likely that when the fixed term ended, you moved to a monthly Contractual Periodic Tenancy. So the required notice is whatever the contract says.

Since the contract says
* at least two months prior notice, and
* notice must expire the day before the end of the rent due date (strange wording, but hey-ho)

then yes, your 2 months notice expires on the 27th.

There is some ambiguity however. It is possible this is not a Contractual Periodic Tenancy, but instead a Statutory Periodic Tenancy. If so, the notice would be one month, not 2, but would still have to end on the 27th.

Does the original contract say anything else, elsewhere, about what happens after the fixed term? If not, this could be a SPT, though the fact that it specifies notice applicable after the fixed term suggest a CPT follows.

On a side note the estate agents have verbally said to me previously that I have to give a months notice - but I do not have this in writing. Where do I stand with giving notice? I don't want to ask them to prompt them to think we are going to move and get the landlord chucking us out before we find somewhere, but how many decent places can you find that are willing to wait two months for you to move in??

You could certainly try giving one months notice (ending on 27th) and refer to this conversation. The LL/agent may accept it. Or they might deny the conversation and refer to the contract.

wizzywig27

Cheers buddy. If it is SPT or CPT how do I approach this? We haven't found anywhere yet but have high hopes for somewhere we are looking at on Saturday. We don't want to give notice in case we don't find somewhere but we also don't want to wait and hand in notice giving a month and them advising we need to give two?

Should I message them asking how I give notice and how long it has to be hoping they put 1 month in an email?

saajan_12

If the agreement was worded better, I'd say you have a Contractual PT requiring 2 months notice to expire the day before a rent day. There is some ambiguity as you do not need to give notice to move out when a fixed term ends. I think its unlikely this would invalidate the whole clause, but ultimately a court would decide if both parties let it go that far.

The LA's verbal comments would likely be assuming a standard SPT without having looked at your particular agreement. You could try to get them to put it in writing, but there will still be the conflicting tenancy agreement - again up to a court to decide.

I wouldn't worry about 'them giving you notice because you sound like you're going to move', as they'd have to give you 2 months notice, apply to court and wait for bailiffs, so all in a ~4-6 month process which is plenty of time to find somewhere. If you give notice and don't find somewhere to move to, you can be liable for double rent if you overstay.

Guest101

You write to the address for the purpose of serving notice (should be page 1)

Guest101

saajan_12 wrote: »

If the agreement was worded better, I'd say you have a Contractual PT requiring 2 months notice to expire the day before a rent day. There is some ambiguity as you do not need to give notice to move out when a fixed term ends. I think its unlikely this would invalidate the whole clause, but ultimately a court would decide if both parties let it go that far.

The LA's verbal comments would likely be assuming a standard SPT without having looked at your particular agreement. You could try to get them to put it in writing, but there will still be the conflicting tenancy agreement - again up to a court to decide.

I wouldn't worry about 'them giving you notice because you sound like you're going to move', as they'd have to give you 2 months notice, apply to court and wait for bailiffs, so all in a ~4-6 month process which is plenty of time to find somewhere. If you give notice and don't find somewhere to move to, you can be liable for double rent if you overstay.

Recent figures put eviction at upto 42 weeks on average (geography depending)

G_M

Do you have any relationship with the landlord? If so, and it's a good relationship, that may be the way to go. A friendly chat about your general plans and ask if he'll be flexible.

I really appreciate tenants who give me a 'heads up' when they are thinking of moving. And I undersand that there are inevitable uncertainties, whether they are trying to buy, or rent again, so I'll often agree to end the tenancy on a date other than the end of the period (eg 27th), and a shorter notice period.

But where the LL has handed total control to an agent (eg the ll is overseas etc) such flexibility is often not forthcoming.....

wizzywig27

Hi all

Quick update: rang the estate agents today, basically it's one months clear notice, so if I give notice on the 27th Feb or after then I vacate on the 26th April if I give notice on the 26th Feb I can vacate on the 26th March.

Unfortunately we have no relationship with the landlady with all communication going via the EA. She refuses to enter a fixed term agreement even though we have requested this a) after initial term ended and b) when she out rent up. She refused on both occasions.

She refuses to maintain the property in any way, even when we asked if we could paint (same colours as is) she said no 'as we might gat paint on the floor'. We have problems with blown double glazing panes (wooden frames) which has resulted in mould around the windows (which we are being blamed for), some of the windows won't open due to warping, some of the vents won't open as previous tenant painted them closed. It's a nightmare and when we mention it to the EA their response is why don't you just live out!