Fun & Games - PIP

poppy12345

rockingbilly wrote: »

The letter I have is 4 pages long. It starts off saying that they have looked at the PIP2 and the evidence I sent in. Then it goes into to weird lingo telling me the points and descriptors given and at the end it says that I am not entitled to PIP and that my DLA award which was suspended has been terminated from the date of the suspension.
Then there is a bit about appeal rights for PIP and that I don't have any appeal rights for DLA.
To me I don't see anything changing even if I did a MR. The impression I get is that my claim wasn't good enough to even warrant a face to face assessment!
I suspect I know the reason - I wonder if there is a chance that I could put in another PIP2 form to supersede the first and get some professional help in filling it in.

I can't see any point in starting the whole process over again, when you can just ask for a MR then appeal if needed. Putting in another PIP2 form when the chances of them rejecting you again would be very high because it's not been that long since sending off the first PIP2 form.

Muttleythefrog

rockingbilly wrote: »

The letter I have is 4 pages long. It starts off saying that they have looked at the PIP2 and the evidence I sent in. Then it goes into to weird lingo telling me the points and descriptors given and at the end it says that I am not entitled to PIP and that my DLA award which was suspended has been terminated from the date of the suspension.
Then there is a bit about appeal rights for PIP and that I don't have any appeal rights for DLA.
To me I don't see anything changing even if I did a MR. The impression I get is that my claim wasn't good enough to even warrant a face to face assessment!
I suspect I know the reason - I wonder if there is a chance that I could put in another PIP2 form to supersede the first and get some professional help in filling it in.

Hmmm.. obviously have to use some poetic licence here... but the only logical conclusions are they didn't look very well at your PIP2 and other evidence or that you have hung yourself in some way... failed to provide indication of sufficient scoring descriptors being applicable.

You don't state whether you got any scoring descriptors.... but I presume they add them up (if any) and sate them in the letter.... you may be close to an award. The fact that you haven't had a face to face medical which can be double edged sword... powerful evidence for you or them that you don't qualify or do qualify for PIP... means that in effect you don't have the usual problematic evidence to challenge in asking for MR or then later tribunal appeal.

But to be honest... there's 3 immediate things you need to do. First establish what descriptors they awarded you and how close that took you to an award. Second establish what descriptors apply to you if you were assessing you. If according to you you should get an award (i.e. 8 points or more for Daily Living or Mobility) I'd consider pursuing the matter. I'd thirdly look at your evidence (PIP2 etc) and try to figure out if they've accurately reached descriptor conclusions and acquire the other evidence used (perhaps from your GP) and see if that sheds light.

If you should get an award and feel they've reached the wrong conclusions I'd pursue a reconsideration as per above advice but i'd be weary that your own evidence may be problematic given they felt able to take a decision as they have done. Making a new claim instead... I'm not sure about that... they already have recent evidence of claim from you that they presumably could re-use to deny a claim on the same basis. Unless your health has changed since claiming or disabilities altered... then I would pursue reconsideration if according to you you should qualify. It is possible that will result in same outcome but a tribunal could take a different view and many do. Key is you focus on those descriptors... what did they award.. what should they award... how can you convince of the latter.

But ultimately you're in better control of the facts.. it may be worth taking advice if you feel you're not well placed to deal with this. Get hold of any evidence they acquired to take decision that you didn't present... waiting for that could swallow up significant chunk of your month to get reconsideration request in.

rockingbilly

poppy12345 wrote: »

I can't see any point in starting the whole process over again, when you can just ask for a MR then appeal if needed. Putting in another PIP2 form when the chances of them rejecting you again would be very high because it's not been that long since sending off the first PIP2 form.

I understand that, but it does seem that the way the original form was filled in by the Jobcentre doesn't do me any favours. I knew I would be on a hiding to nothing having them complete it for me, but time was against me in getting it back to them. I did get an extension of 7 days but even that was still 5 days short of the appointment I had at Welfare Rights.

I suppose the MR will be 'no change' and the worry is that if it went to a Tribunal they would take one look at what was put on the form and throw the appeal out.

Muttleythefrog

rockingbilly wrote: »

I understand that, but it does seem that the way the original form was filled in by the Jobcentre doesn't do me any favours. I knew I would be on a hiding to nothing having them complete it for me, but time was against me in getting it back to them. I did get an extension of 7 days but even that was still 5 days short of the appointment I had at Welfare Rights.

I suppose the MR will be 'no change' and the worry is that if it went to a Tribunal they would take one look at what was put on the form and throw the appeal out.

The jobcentre helped you complete PIP2 'how your disability affects you' form (the lengthy one that goes into the various different 12 activities as well as asking for other basic information)? That might go a long way to explaining things if so...I would take a punt you'll lack for significant detail of your problems. Have you even got a copy of what 'you' said?

rockingbilly

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

Hmmm.. obviously have to use some poetic licence here... but the only logical conclusions are they didn't look very well at your PIP2 and other evidence or that you have hung yourself in some way... failed to provide indication of sufficient scoring descriptors being applicable.
I did send them evidence but I had nothing that explained how it fitted the descriptors. I honestly don't know what was put on the form, I didn't fill it in. What I do know is that the Jobcentre just wrote (well I hope they did) down what I said in which case no descriptors were identified.

You don't state whether you got any scoring descriptors.... but I presume they add them up (if any) and sate them in the letter.... you may be close to an award. The fact that you haven't had a face to face medical which can be double edged sword... powerful evidence for you or them that you don't qualify or do qualify for PIP... means that in effect you don't have the usual problematic evidence to challenge in asking for MR or then later tribunal appeal.
Their letter says that I didn't score anything anywhere. The only thing I thought of doing was to complete a new form and getting some proper help. Alternatively get hold of a copy of the form and the evidence I sent in together with their reasons for the decision and try to explain using the evidence to show which descriptors apply?

But to be honest... there's 3 immediate things you need to do. First establish what descriptors they awarded you and how close that took you to an award. Second establish what descriptors apply to you if you were assessing you. If according to you you should get an award (i.e. 8 points or more for Daily Living or Mobility) I'd consider pursuing the matter. I'd thirdly look at your evidence (PIP2 etc) and try to figure out if they've accurately reached descriptor conclusions and acquire the other evidence used (perhaps from your GP) and see if that sheds light.
My main worry is that the form doesn't describe my problems properly.

If you should get an award and feel they've reached the wrong conclusions I'd pursue a reconsideration as per above advice but i'd be weary that your own evidence may be problematic given they felt able to take a decision as they have done. Making a new claim instead... I'm not sure about that... they already have recent evidence of claim from you that they presumably could re-use to deny a claim on the same basis. Unless your health has changed since claiming or disabilities altered... then I would pursue reconsideration if according to you you should qualify. It is possible that will result in same outcome but a tribunal could take a different view and many do. Key is you focus on those descriptors... what did they award.. what should they award... how can you convince of the latter.

But ultimately you're in better control of the facts.. it may be worth taking advice if you feel you're not well placed to deal with this. Get hold of any evidence they acquired to take decision that you didn't present... waiting for that could swallow up significant chunk of your month to get reconsideration request in.
I did ask that they let me have copies of the evidence used for ESA and DLA but they don't mention that in their letter and they haven't sent me anything.

I hope you don't mind me replying in that way.

faerielight

try not to give up, it's so worth doing a MR. Have you ever jointed "benefits and work? they have good guides on there about the descriptors for £18 a year http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/

Muttleythefrog

rockingbilly wrote: »

I hope you don't mind me replying in that way.

Don't mind at all. Hmmm I'd try to chase up all the evidence in play then including your form completed by 'them'. I think only then can you really make sound judgement as to path forward. I hope you don't have the problems I did getting evidence... they can seem pretty clueless. MR or new claim though it would seem.

rockingbilly

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

The jobcentre helped you complete PIP2 'how your disability affects you' form (the lengthy one that goes into the various different 12 activities as well as asking for other basic information)? That might go a long way to explaining things if so...I would take a punt you'll lack for significant detail of your problems. Have you even got a copy of what 'you' said?

Yes they helped me, there was no other alternative because of the delay in getting an earlier appointment with Welfare Rights. On here I was told that they should give another 14 days but when I asked they just said 7 days.
No I was not given a copy by them and they never copied the evidence that went with the form. I have nothing, I'm just hoping that they are able to copy everything and send it on to me. But given that they haven't sent me the ESA and DLA files which do contain some more evidence as well I don't hold out much hope of them replying this side of Christmas.

rockingbilly

The real big issue is that I am 67, 68 in June and don't know if they would accept another claim. This was a transfer from DLA (HRM & MRC indefinite) to PIP.

NeilCr

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

The jobcentre helped you complete PIP2 'how your disability affects you' form (the lengthy one that goes into the various different 12 activities as well as asking for other basic information)? That might go a long way to explaining things if so...I would take a punt you'll lack for significant detail of your problems. Have you even got a copy of what 'you' said?

Just to be clear on this Rockingbilly was given the completed form to take home. He has said in various places on here that he didn't read it at all, he did read it and saw there was a lot wrong and he was "working on the form". He did, therefore, have a chance to get a copy made before sending it off

Unless it is an absolutely hopeless case I usually say go for the MR. Nothing to lose - but I certainly think, someone like Rockingbilly should seek help with it as he does seem to have a lot of problems with form completion.