PCN Appeal Rejected - worth taking further?

NewNewMoney

Hi I'm new to all of this and this adult life in general so any advice would be appreciated.

I have a day permits to park on a land which I use as and when needed. I stack my dash and just display the new one on top. On one particular day the valid permit blew off the dash. I have received a ticket from this company before Parking and Property Management Ltd and I appealed rather hastily before doing my research (I should have ignored it) so they have my details etc, so I thought no harm in trying again. I've attached the rejection to my appeal to this post at the bottom but as a new user I can't post links (so I've been inventive), and maybe this is me attempting to not give up hope but the part I've highlighted in blue contradicts their reasoning. They've effectively said my permit was valid so how can they justify their ticket?

the link to the rejection is (without spaces):
http:// imgur.com / a / ESHK9
Shall I cut my losses or contact them and highlight this error to try and cancel the ticket?

The_Deep

A minnow, check them out on the CH website. Also IPC so probably best to ignore unless they are daft enough as to take you to court

Redx

there is no obligation to pay unless a judge says so , in court

follow the IPC advice in the NEWBIES thread and ignore them unless they try an MCOL within 6 years

come back if that happens OR if you get an LBC off somebody like GLADSTONES , within 6 years

Coupon-mad

Shall I cut my losses or contact them and highlight this error to try and cancel the ticket?

Neither. If they try court they will use Gladstones and we've never lost a defended Gladstones case. As Redx says:

follow the IPC advice in the NEWBIES thread and ignore them unless they try an MCOL within 6 years

Defending a small claim is not such a biggie as you would imagine. No CCJ, no huge costs and like I say, Gladstones evidence is generic, unchecked 'robo-claim' drivel and we've never lost one yet.

NewNewMoney

Hi all, thanks for the replies.

I have received a letter from Gladstones solicitors asking me to pay £160 or I could get taken to court and additional costs could increase to £202.25. I'm looking at the letter and it looks pretty shoddy. For a company that wants to be taken seriously and is threatening court action, the presentation of the letter is pretty poor, didn't even bother to capitalise my name and address (but I digress).

The letter just says the client which is Parking and Property Management, the amount due, my registration and gladstones' reference. There's absolutely no reference to the parking charge.

What should I do next?

Umkomaas

How is the letter headed?

To whom does Gladstones instruct you to pay the charge?

NewNewMoney

imgur. com/ a/AhEqq

The letter states I need to pay gladstones in 14 days (dated from April 24th)

NewNewMoney

It's also headed as a final reminder as opposed to an LBC, but the content indicate it as the latter

Umkomaas

http://imgur.com/a/AhEqq

This is still probably at debt collector stage, so you could ignore it and wait for a formal LBC, which should be headed up as such (or similar).

On the other hand, given that P&PM are currently quite litigious, you are likely to receive court papers in due course, so you could go on the offensive, treat this as a LBC, deny there is any debt owing to their client, invite them to issue court proceedings (they are probably going to do in any case) which you will defend vigorously.

Help available here if you get a claim. You might want to start preparation by reading NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 which explains the whole court process and what you have to do.

NewNewMoney

Thank you for the response - I think I will treat it as an LBC as I've taken a look at their stats and like you said they've become trigger-happy with court action in 2017.

This is actually the 2nd of 3 PCNs I've received from them. The first one I paid because I was a literal newbie (new driver) and didn't know the difference between council and private tickets. The second (this one) I appealed and now I am taking advice from the forums.

I received another about two weeks later (all PCNs were received from the same place and I'm about to follow the IPC advice in the newbie thread - I didn't appeal within 28 days like the other two PCNs, I received a letter from PP&M saying payment is overdue and if my understanding is correct I should appeal as the registered keeper not the named driver.

I was looking at some really useful information on BMPA and in order to prepare for court (possibly two separate legal proceedings) I would need all my documentation in place. Do you think I should do a Subject Access Request (SAR) so that I have everything they essentially "hold" on me?

Umkomaas

Do you think I should do a Subject Access Request (SAR) so that I have everything they essentially "hold" on me?

With potentially 2 court cases, a SAR will be a tenner well spent. They have 41 days to reply. I'd be making a complaint to the ICO if you know they are withholding anything (especially relating the ticket you paid initially - a useful 'test' of their completeness of response).

A SAR also flags up that you might be feisty and a bit more difficult to handle than an average motorist who cowers at the idea of 'court' and the likes of whom a bully loves to deal with. Perhaps not so brave when one of them bites back!