They lost my driving license and now are taking me to court saying I didn't send it!

Paula42

First post so apologies for any mistakes...Any advice greatfully received.
Oct 2016 Caught speeding in South Wales 35mph in 30mph zone at 11pm.
Received notice. Paid £100 fine.
Returned notice with driving licence.
Driving licence was out of date by a couple of months, sent it anyway and it was not returned. Assumed that was the reason and applied for a new one with updated photo. As everything is computer based now I thought that endorsements would be transferred to the new Licence.....just found out this is not the case after contacting DVLA.
Just received a court summons saying I had failed to return DL for endorsement.

If they received the notice then they had my DLicence as it was definitely in the envelope. What can I do please? It's my word against theirs and I'm going to get fined for it. Genuinely feel really anxious and don't know what to do.

stator

So you let your driving licence expire and for a few months you didn't have a valid driving licence? IS this correct?

Paula42

Hi,
Yes. Unfortunately I didn't realised that it had expired until I went to send it in to them.

iolanthe07

Explain the circumstances to them and keep you fingers crossd that you are not prosecuted for driving without a valid licence, which may mean more points and another fine on top of the speeding one. Did you receive a reminder before your licence was due to expire? If not, then you may have grounds for mitigation, but ultimately it is up to the individual to keep track of expiry dates.

AdrianC

stator wrote: »

So you let your driving licence expire and for a few months you didn't have a valid driving licence? IS this correct?

The expiry of a photocard does not invalidate the legal entitlement to drive.
But, if it was the expiry of the category (at age 70, and periodically thereafter, or at a younger age for medical reasons), then that's a different question.

And, yes, the record of the endorsement would have gone onto the driver record, separately from the expiry and replacement of the actual photocard. But if they've not processed the fixed penalty, because no valid licence was sent in, then there's not been an endorsement as yet - and that's what the court date's for.

Bigphil1474

Did you mean that you paid the fine by sending payment with the notice or did you pay the fine, then send the notice back. If payment was sent with the notice (and your DL), then, as you say, they must have received both if the fine has been paid. If you paid it separately, how do you know they received the notice, and your DL? Did you send it recorded delivery?

Johnmcl7

From what you've said, you sent an expired photo license which didn't comply with the fixed penalty notice so instead they've proceeded to take you to court for the speeding offence? Have they refunded you the £100?

If that is the case, there is a provision for the courts to apply the same fine as the fixed penalty would have offered if the person couldn't comply with the fixed penalty notice for administrative reasons. That's covered on page 185 of the sentencing guidelines:

http://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Final-MCSG-2017-1-1.pdf

where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence
itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point
should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be
imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in
these circumstances. A list of offences for which penalty notices are available, and the amount of
the penalty, is set out in Annex B.

You need to plead guilty to the speeding offence but explain that you should received fixed penalty notice level of the fine.

John

stator

Would be best to get written confirmation from the DVLA about the date your photo licence expired and the date that you applied for the new one.

Rover_Driver

Paula42 wrote: »

Hi,
Yes. Unfortunately I didn't realised that it had expired until I went to send it in to them.

What had expired, the licence or just the photograph?

shaun_from_Africa

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

If that is the case, there is a provision for the courts to apply the same fine as the fixed penalty would have offered if the person couldn't comply with the fixed penalty notice for administrative reasons. That's covered on page 185 of the sentencing guidelines:

But surely the most important part of the quote you provided is this:

where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed

If the reason for not being able to accept the FPN was because of an expired licence, I would be surprised if the court accepts that this was outside of the OP's control.

iolanthe07

The expiry of a photocard does not invalidate the legal entitlement to drive.

Thank you. I'm sure a lot of people, like me, didn't know that.