EBAY are at best stupid, at worse thieves... advice please??

Flyonthewall

Asker wrote: »

Don't understand this.

I could've djsut done a simpel returns label and sort it out.

Then suddenly that option was taken away from me because ebay said "the buyer has opened a case". My wife's experience (which ebay have confirmed is the policy - ridiculous as it is) is that once a case is opened and ebay have to spend monkey-hours looking through it all they punish you as a seller for it having to go through what they call a "case". it could have been sorted beforehand if I'd just pressed "accept refund, print return label". As a result they keep the seller fees, even though you've refunded the item. Yes, unbelievable but true.

But due to the buyer taking over three weeks to reply to my suggestions of what to try (in case he got it wrong and it was actually working) and then randomly just opening a case with ebay, this simple preliminary "yes I agree to refund just send it back to me first" option vanished and it went down case route.

All issues are resolved through cases regarding item not received and returns/refunds. A case being opened does not affect a seller account.

If a seller resolves the case all is fine. If a seller does not resolve the case ebay step in. If ebay step in the seller account is affected (you get a defect for failing to resolve the issue).

You have 8 days in which to resolve the issue. If you don't then a buyer can escalate the case to ebay who then make a decision. Until that point ebay are not involved. They do not look through every case opened, that would be impossible.

If after 30 days a buyer has not escalated the case and it has not been closed because you refunded them then the case closes.

forgotmyname

Just opened a case as a buyer and as above you do seem to have made it difficult for yourself.

Buyer opens a case, you respond with return postage, they send it back and you refund the initial amount when you receive it.

If you charged £20 postage how come it only cost £2.58 to return it? Seems odd. To return insured for £100 would have cost more than that wouldnt it?

Flyonthewall

forgotmyname wrote: »

If you charged £20 postage how come it only cost £2.58 to return it? Seems odd. To return insured for £100 would have cost more than that wouldnt it?

Asker wrote: »

Re: £20 postage: Irrelevant point, but to answer it yes £20 seems a lot but I made it very clear in the ad I want collection only as don't haev teh time or inclination to post but £20 would cover my time/ finding box/ driving down to post office etc. Have always done this and ppl never complain. Or if they don't like it they won't bid as it's in black and white.

Basically massively overcharge on postage as it was collection only so paying for time, packaging, cost of trip to PO etc.

I mean, I get covering costs, but £20 does seem OTT when postage is clearly so little. Surprised, even if people have agreed to it, that OP has yet to be marked down for adding on so much. Guessing they must be pretty expensive items in the first place for it to be worth it to the buyer!

forgotmyname

I missed the £20 postage bit. So much text..

I was wondering if the OP was the seller of my recently returned item.
But my seller undercharged the postage.

What did i read recently about sellers being charged for returns? Or is that failing to refund returns? I wonder if that applied here?

soolin

forgotmyname wrote: »

I missed the £20 postage bit. So much text..

I was wondering if the OP was the seller of my recently returned item.
But my seller undercharged the postage.

What did i read recently about sellers being charged for returns? Or is that failing to refund returns? I wonder if that applied here?

A seller is always charged for a returns label for a SNAD claim. There is no other charge though unless they ignore the claim or refuse to send a label in which case seller loses their FVFs as well.

soolin

Asker wrote: »

Don't understand this.

I could've djsut done a simpel returns label and sort it out.

Then suddenly that option was taken away from me because ebay said "the buyer has opened a case". My wife's experience (which ebay have confirmed is the policy - ridiculous as it is) is that once a case is opened and ebay have to spend monkey-hours looking through it all they punish you as a seller for it having to go through what they call a "case". it could have been sorted beforehand if I'd just pressed "accept refund, print return label". As a result they keep the seller fees, even though you've refunded the item. Yes, unbelievable but true. .

This is not true. If a buyer opens a SNAD case and seller sends the label for return and then refunds through the case they automatically get their FVFs back, they don't even have to ask, it is done for them.

Perhaps your wife was remembering something from many years ago as things do change quite a lot on ebay. The new 'case' system where cases do not count as a defect against a seller has been in force now for two or three years ? (I'm sure other regulars will correct me if I'm wrong)

Asker wrote: »

But due to the buyer taking over three weeks to reply to my suggestions of what to try (in case he got it wrong and it was actually working) and then randomly just opening a case with ebay, this simple preliminary "yes I agree to refund just send it back to me first" option vanished and it went down case route.

Then something somewhere went wrong, as that is not how it works.

Re: over-refund. Even before the whole refund saga when the item sold it said "£177" sale price even though it was 137 plus 20 postage. Seems a random glitch in teh system. Even other stuff I sold that weekend were all classed as being sold for £20 more, even though they had different postages and prices. A glitch in the system that I've pointed out to ebay repeatedly and they acknowledged (at least some monkey acknowledged it on the phone) several times.

This also doesn't make sense, if this is a glitch why is it only happening to you? usually the community boards on ebay are full of threads the moment someone has an issue with lots of 'me too' posts, no one else is reporting any glitch where £20 is added onto the cost of items.

I'm trying to phrase this politely but please be assured that regulars will confirm I don't always explain things well. You've misunderstood how the case works, you have a strange glitch that no one else - it sounds like perhaps you are seeing something and misunderstanding what you are seeing. What ebay confirm or not is immaterial, most of us here take what ebay tell us on the phones with a pinch of salt. Where they can't make someone understand, or even if they don't understand themselves they just agree with the person phoning, even when it is nonsense. If they have told you categorically that your listings, and only your listings have a glitch where £20 is added then go back to them, get their name and a case reference number and demand they sort it out.

One other point, and my explanation seems unlikely as you talk about a round £20 added to all your sales, you aren't misunderstanding what is shown in your paypal account are you? Something simple like your paypal fees are co incidentally £20, so your item sells for £177 (no need to show postage separately as it will be just one figure) , your headline figure in paypal is £157 after fees but your refund shows as the original £177?

Two last points if anyone is still reading, check your expanded seller dashboard, are you showing a defect there for the transaction.

Lastly, there are some big sellers on here, personally I'm a small business but some here have hundreds of sales a week so between us we are familiar with how ebay works. That's why we are perplexed by your issue, it makes no sense as if this was ongoing then someone somewhere would have been reporting the same issue.

soolin

apologies, I promise to stop in a moment!

I've just had a thought on this- perhaps regulars could check my reasoning?

But due to the buyer taking over three weeks to reply to my suggestions of what to try (in case he got it wrong and it was actually working) and then randomly just opening a case with ebay, this simple preliminary "yes I agree to refund just send it back to me first" option vanished and it went down case route.

It just struck me that was this a case of ignoring the open case and so ebay stepped in, charged OP for the return, closed the case and refused to refund FVFs?

OP, you say buyer took three weeks to respond to your suggestions, was a case of any sort open at that point as if so buyer was under no obligation to respond. So while you were waiting for buyer to respond all buyer had to do was escalate it to ebay who found in his favour and as such will not return your FVFs.

As quite a few seller misunderstand how return cases and seller messages work I actually wrote a 'sticky' thread about it here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/71969472#Comment_71969472

This_Year

I suspect you might be right, Soolin.

Flyonthewall

soolin wrote: »

One other point, and my explanation seems unlikely as you talk about a round £20 added to all your sales, you aren't misunderstanding what is shown in your paypal account are you? Something simple like your paypal fees are co incidentally £20, so your item sells for £177 (no need to show postage separately as it will be just one figure) , your headline figure in paypal is £157 after fees but your refund shows as the original £177?

OP, are you perhaps looking at the main balance rather than transactions? Is it possible you had £20 in your account already? Maybe withdrawing the amount you knew you got for sales and not checking the balance until next time you got a sale? So then every new sale appeared to have an extra £20 on top as that was in the Paypal account already?

It could be a weird glitch and perhaps a few others have it and haven't noticed so no reports of it on ebay boards, but something like that would maybe explain it.

soolin wrote: »

It just struck me that was this a case of ignoring the open case and so ebay stepped in, charged OP for the return, closed the case and refused to refund FVFs?

OP, you say buyer took three weeks to respond to your suggestions, was a case of any sort open at that point as if so buyer was under no obligation to respond. So while you were waiting for buyer to respond all buyer had to do was escalate it to ebay who found in his favour and as such will not return your FVFs.

Could be. It's quite possible the buyer opened a case rather than just sending a message. It's something most buyers do. It would explain vanishing options and no FVF refund.

Asker

Ok just had a response from ebay

People are woefully missing the point here.

Let me simply it for you all.

Regardless of what should or shouldn't have happened:

1) They have AGAIN admitted fault for the incorrect fee of £177 refund instead of £157 and will be refunding me the £20. So anyone who even suggested this shouldn't be so, thanks for your 'help'.

2) They CATEGORICALLY TOLD ME IN SEVERAL PHONECALLS SPEAKING TO MANAGERS AND SUPERVISORS that as I called them immediately to voluteer to refund after the case was opened, that I would get the seller's fee refunded to me. THIS WAS THEIR SUGGESTION, THEIR PROMISE. Each time they said "well as you called us to prevent this case from progressing we shall give you back the seller's fee once the refund is received". So no matter what you guys think is the right or wrong of it, THIS IS WHAT EBAY HAVE TOLD ME, AND WAS THEIR PROMISE TO ME. SEPARATE PEOPLE TOLD ME THIS. And, it is actually completely fair anyway and makes perfect sense.

The issue is that despite this completely fair outcome they've agreed to, they are now saying otherwise and just throwing garbage responses at me saying: "No once is opened you will not get a seller's fee refund."

Therefore my opening title stands:

Ebay are at best stupid (idiotic foreign call centre monkeys who do not know what is going on).

Ebay are thieves.

I firmly believe both are true. Ebay by virtue of being a big corporation are almost by definition immoral and unfair 'thieves', and the call centre people are clearly completely stupid for false promises and the system of stupid people clearly isn't working. The way the two interact is that ebay knowingly employs stupid people. Any company that knowingly employs stupid people who cannot interact appropriately and fairly with its customer base purely because it works out cheaper, is a company that is not respecting its customers and is providing a substandard service, so are thieves.

Thanks so much for your fantastic help.