Re-issueing a warrent

Patches3

Hello,


Any advice on the whether I should re-issue a warrant in order to get my money back from a car dealer would be appreciated.


I bought a second hand car from XX Car Dealers. Within 5 months the water pump needed replacing. I took the car back to the dealer after reading the advice on the Trading Standards website. The manager was away and the chap in charge refused to pay for the replacement, suggesting I paid and later contacted the manager for a refund.


I subsequently wrote to the manager three times; no reply. I contacted the Consumer Ombudsman who contacted the dealer on my behalf and they did not receive a reply either. I then contacted Trading Standards who advised me to proceed to the small claims court, which I did.


The dealer ignore the Small Claims correspondence so I applied for judgement by default and the dealer was ordered to pay £300 - which they did not do (surprise). I then applied for the bailiff to collect the money on my behalf. The bailiff attended and did not get the money, due to the fact that, approximately five days after I attended the garage to have the water pump repaired, XX Car Dealers ceased trading.


However, this is a technicality, they haven't. They are still there, same signage, same stock, same premises and same staff. They became a limited company and now trade as XX Car Dealers Limited.


I need to know how to proceed to get the money owed to me. I can re-issue the warrant but this will cost me another £70 - and is obviously only worth doing if I can get the money back. I think I made a mistake initially but issuing the warrant against the Manager of XX Car Dealers. I now believe that it is the owner of the company who is liable for the company's debts, therefore, if I re-issue the warrant in his name and the bailiff visits his home and I going to be able to legally get my money back?


Thanks for reading!

sjbrun

No, The old companies debts dies with that company. You cannot persue the directors / owners of that company (unless they signed a personal guarentee).

You can apply to stop the old company form being wound up but for the value that you are after it is unlikely to be worth the effort.

Basically you didn't give any money to this new company so they don't owe you anything, also you didn't give any money personally to the owner. You gave money to the old company so you can only persue that old company.

steampowered

Who is actually named on the CCJ?

If the CCJ is against the manager personally, you can send bailiffs round to the manager's house. You just need to find out his address.

If the CCJ is against a now defunct company, you would need to reissue your claim against the new company.

In circumstances such as these the new company would remain liable for the old company's debts as by acquiring the business without paying market value to the old company, the new company would be party to a transaction defrauding creditors. There is provision for the new company to be made liable for those debts under the Insolvency Act (see http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/45/section/423).

unholyangel

sjbrun wrote: »

No, The old companies debts dies with that company. You cannot persue the directors / owners of that company (unless they signed a personal guarentee).

You can apply to stop the old company form being wound up but for the value that you are after it is unlikely to be worth the effort.

Basically you didn't give any money to this new company so they don't owe you anything, also you didn't give any money personally to the owner. You gave money to the old company so you can only persue that old company.

Perhaps I've misunderstood but OP said they have become a ltd company. Not that they were a ltd company before and have phoenix'd. Theres a possibility there is personal liability and they didn't respond to the claim because it was issued against a legal entity that doesn't actually exist.

OP, who exactly was the judgement against? What kind of entity are they (ltd company, sole trader, LLP, partnership)?

DoaM

OP - how did you pay for the vehicle? If any of the payment was by credit card or other finance directly associated with the vehicle purchase then you may have a claim against the credit company under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act. (Which makes the credit provider jointly and severally liable with the trader for the performance of the contract - including any warranty and legal rights under SoGA/CRA).

arcon5

If the business was a sole trader then yes have him named on the judgement. Should have named him in the first place, you can list multiple defendants.

Patches3

Hello and thank you all for your advice.


To answer your questions -
The CCJ was against the old company XX Car Dealers (that was my mistake in not finding a person's name).


There are no company/owner/trader's details on the paperwork I got with the car, which there should have been. I don't know exactly what entity they were. Interestingly, they are still not giving out any company details now they are a Ltd company, which is in breach of regulations I have been told.


I believe that the owner of the present, now Ltd, company is the same person who owned the old company and I do have his address.


I am not sure if the old company was actually sold, the bailiff reported that it just "ceased trading".


I paid £1,800 for the vehicle in cash. (They did not take cards.)


I have been in touch with Trading Standards, again, and I understand that if I can find out that the current owner is also the previous owner my claim should be made against him. I may be able to transfer the judgement, or I may have to start again in the CC.


Apparently, a judgement in the name of a company is often unenforceable, but they do not tell you this when you are filling out the small claims form!


Many thanks for all your help, I shall keep trying.

arcon5

Choose your working carefully in any claim, your claim isn't against a 'company'. It is against a business

Mr C Smith T/A cars4sale

steampowered

CCJs against companies are perfectly enforceable. It is simply that the company might not have any assets to enforce against.

If there are no company details on any of the paperwork, sue the relevant person directly. It is probably easier and cheaper to do this by issuing a new claim.

If he wants your contract to be with a company, he needs to tell you that you are contracting with a company when you buy a car. Otherwise you'll be contracting with an individual.