can a next of kin be over ridden

babypuppy

Hello, My brother was admitted to hospital after a cardiac arrest, His daughter who only turns up when she wants something, has claimed to be next of kin as he did not state a next of kin, Firstly she has got a hold of his bank card and has been using it to finance her stay here, She lives 140 miles away from him, My brother also suffered from a drinking problem and depression, as he was in the hospital, there was a few complications, and on top of everything else acquired delirium, My brother mentioned that his daughter was asking him to sing a form to release the equity of his home, (she works for a company that deals with these things) When we asked her about the form she just told us that it was the delirium getting him confused, My brother suffered another cardiac arrest whilst in hospital and now has brain damage, the doctors state that he may make a partial recovery over a long period of time but at the moment can not communicate and not very responsive, His daughter has now requested that he be moved near her and next to her daughters who he never really sees much, we have not gotten much help from the hospital as as far as they are concerned she is next of kin, Is there anything me and his 3 sisters can do to make sure not only does he not lose his home but also whatever money he has left, can we block or postpone his move away from us what is the best way to deal with this problem any advise is very much appreciated, If you require more information then please ask

fed_up_and_stressed

My advice is to involve social services if you suspect financial abuse of a vulnerable adult.

Torry_Quine

Unless she has power of attorney, which I doubt from what you say, she has no legal rights over his health needs or finances. She should not be using his bank account, you could contact his bank and say the card is missing.

As his daughter though the hospital will look to her when making decisions.

Does anyone have power of attorney?

FBaby

Ask for the person responsible for Adult Safeguarding at the hospital and explain the situation. They can do an assessment and indeed involve social services if it shows any concerns.

Daffodilly_2

I work in the NHS and previously worked in social services and have been told that there is no legal Next Of Kin. The hospital/social work team should be assessing your brother's mental capacity to make his own decisions about his finances and health needs. Remembering this is decision specific, if he is found not to be able to make these decisions (permanently) then there may need to be an application for deputyship in order for someone to assist him. There is then a legal responsibility to work in his best interests and to make the decision as he would have made it. At the moment if he cannot communicate a decision then he will be found not to have capacity. Also there's no way that his daughter could say he has given her permission to use his bank card etc if he cannot communicate.

For the time being, raise your concerns to the staff or the hospital social care team. Try to establish what his wishes were prior to this - does he have a will? Were there ever any discussions about what might happen if he were ever in an accident? Usually when making decisions on behalf of a person we would consider their previous actions and behaviours to try and understand the choice they would have made for themselves.

peachyprice

I would go into the bank and report the card as stolen. Even if he did willingly give it to her she has no authority from the bank to use it.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

babypuppy wrote: »

Hello, My brother was admitted to hospital after a cardiac arrest, His daughter who only turns up when she wants something, has claimed to be next of kin as he did not state a next of kin, Firstly she has got a hold of his bank card and has been using it to finance her stay here, She lives 140 miles away from him, My brother also suffered from a drinking problem and depression, as he was in the hospital, there was a few complications, and on top of everything else acquired delirium, My brother mentioned that his daughter was asking him to sing a form to release the equity of his home, (she works for a company that deals with these things) When we asked her about the form she just told us that it was the delirium getting him confused, My brother suffered another cardiac arrest whilst in hospital and now has brain damage, the doctors state that he may make a partial recovery over a long period of time but at the moment can not communicate and not very responsive, His daughter has now requested that he be moved near her and next to her daughters who he never really sees much, we have not gotten much help from the hospital as as far as they are concerned she is next of kin, Is there anything me and his 3 sisters can do to make sure not only does he not lose his home but also whatever money he has left, can we block or postpone his move away from us what is the best way to deal with this problem any advise is very much appreciated, If you require more information then please ask

He would have needed to tell her his PIN for her to use the card.

And, in all fairness, having an alcoholic father isn't conducive to happy visits; at least she's turned up when he's in hospital and wants him to be cared for where she can visit.


Maybe talking to her, rather than dismissing her as only there when she wants something, would allay your fears - after all, if your understanding of her behaviour is received secondhand from an alcoholic, there really is no guarantee that it's truthful.

Malthusian

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

He would have needed to tell her his PIN for her to use the card.

Not if he wrote the PIN on the back of the card, or set it as his birthday or 1234.

tea_lover

And not if she was using it online (the OP says she's using it to finance her stay - so could be for hotel bookings etc).

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Malthusian wrote: »

Not if he wrote the PIN on the back of the card, or set it as his birthday or 1234.

Are people really that stupid?

Even my mother (79) can handle the concept of not writing a PIN down and remembering the number. Well, she remembers the shape/gesture made to tap it in at any rate. And the only reason she would ever give somebody the PIN would be if she were in hospital and wanted them to have it - which would be one of my brothers, nobody else.

And when I booked/bought things I hadn't before or at a strange time of night, my card got triggered for a security review. It took a good five years of dealing with the bank regularly before they worked out that I shop online at silly o'clock and can end up in random parts of the country at Closing Time. So paying for hotels would be one of those things that would start that procedure - phoning the bank wouldn't work if it wasn't the cardholder, either, in the absence of legal authority, which he would have had to agree to before becoming unconscious. Even if you use Chip without knowing the PIN, every so often transactions flag up to enter the PIN in the terminal - so it's never guaranteed that a card will work without knowing it already.


It's got to be better to talk to the daughter than automatically assume the worst, though.

maman

peachyprice wrote: »

I would go into the bank and report the card as stolen. Even if he did willingly give it to her she has no authority from the bank to use it.

We've heard that she's 'got hold of the card' but that doesn't mean the DD stole it. He could have given it to her and the bank wouldn't look kindly at that.


OP could go to the bank and say that they are concerned that the brother isn't in a fit state to consent and the card might be used to pay for goods/services he hasn't authorised. I think the better option is adult social services to begin with and they might advise reporting to the bank what's going on.


Unfortunately any of these actions is likely to further sour the relationship with the niece so, at least, trying to talk to her is preferable.