Advice: CP Plus Charge Notice Moto Swansea West

3kisses

Hi all. I've read through all the newbie threads and general ticketing information. I have a few questions which I am hoping 1 of you will be able to answer / clarify? I've just received a 'Charge Notice' from CP Plus for a "duration of stay exceeded the free parking period, and payment was not received for parking in excess of the free period" in a Moto Services. I arrived on a very dark, wet and windy welsh day. I was too busy navigating lanes and bends to get the the correct place for cars to park. It was howling with rain and I had my hood up and was carrying a heavy item and was rushing towards the services so didn't even notice that you had to pay after 2 hours.

I have since visited the site and seen lots of signs (doh!) I would actually say it's so excessive that you become 'snow blind' to them! However, this was in daylight and on a dry day at 2pm! Only 1 sign (listed on my 'charge notice') says that you can pay in the stores in the services or via phone - this sign is on a bend and on entry to the car park and nowhere else. I've since found out that it's a flat rate of £15 if you stay over 2 hours, with no option to pay for a set number of hours! Regardless of that I didn't even see any of the other signs which are all on posts which aren't under lights or are above windscreen level and / or the average person's height. In fact, there isn't one in the most obvious place: right opposite the pedestrian crossing leading to the canopy leading into the services!

If I pay within 14 days (although it's really 12 days as it took 2 days to reach me by post) it'll cost £60, if it's not received within 28 days it goes up to £100! I think this is excessive, particularly as even the flat rate is excessive at £15, but at least I would pay that! (Not that I have said that yet). There is no way me overstaying by 1 hour on a wet, weekend night in a not very busy car park would mean that they lost custom!

My questions are : CP Plus are part of BPA:
(1) Do I have to use CP Plus' appeal system 1st & then wait for their acceptance / declination before I send stage 2 to POPLA?

(2) If I have to wait for CP Plus' reply, will this probably mean that I will go over the 14 days & have to pay the full wack (£100) if they decline? Or do I get another 14 days from their refusal date?

(3) I have thought about making some of the points about excessive signs, excessive text, small text, lack of lighting etc. but I don't know how to do this without saying I was driving? I see that this is in the template?

My apologies if the answers are elsewhere & I have missed it in my confusion!

Big thanks, in advance.:beer:

Quentin

Spend some time reading through the newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum.

The full appeals process is gone through there together with a template appeal to use in the first instance aimed at getting you a code for the second stage.

Follow the timeline in that thread for when to send in your appeal and come back for advice on submitting your second appeal when you reach that stage

3kisses

Quentin wrote: »

Spend some time reading through the newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum.

The full appeals process is gone through there together with a template appeal to use in the first instance aimed at getting you a code for the second stage.

Follow the timeline in that thread for when to send in your appeal and come back for advice on submitting your second appeal when you reach that stage

I did read the newbie thread, but wasn't so sure...it sounds like I am right that I have to appeal to CP Plus Direct through their appeals procedure 1st & then contact POPLA if the appeal is rejected?

I'm still not sure what happens to the money I owe though if I appeal? Because they belong to BPA, does it mean that if I appeal to CP Plus 1st & fair their appeal (likely because they would be biased), I'll then have to pay the full wack of £100 rather than the discounted £60?

Not_Scammed

Don't worry about the £60 charge going up to £100, if you follow the advice given you will be paying them exactly £0.00.

I've had CP Plus try to charge me on more than one occasion.

I believe I am right in saying that CP Plus's PCNs don't comply with POFA so there is no way they can sue the keeper of the vehicle. The only person they would stand any chance of successfully taking to court would be the driver....... I don't suppose you'll be telling them who was driving will you???? :beer:

It might be worth editing your original post to remove any mention of exact times.....

3kisses

I'm a bit confused by SCHEDULE 4 Paragraph 9 2d) ii) of Protection of Freedoms Act 2012:

"(d)specify the total amount of those parking charges that are unpaid, as at a time which is—

(ii)no later than the end of the day before the day on which the notice is either sent by post or, as the case may be, handed to or left at a current address for service for the keeper (see sub-paragraph (4));

Also, I don't think my letter from CP Plus states:

"(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full"

Is this good reason to appeal?

3kisses

I've had CP Plus try to charge me on more than one occasion.
I believe I am right in saying that CP Plus's PCNs don't comply with POFA so there is no way they can sue the keeper of the vehicle. The only person they would stand any chance of successfully taking to court would be the driver....... I don't suppose you'll be telling them who was driving will you???? :beer:

That's what I am worried about: how to word it so it doesn't sound like I was driving / parking!

Coupon-mad

You don't ''owe'' anything. You wont be paying anything.

Also, I don't think my letter from CP Plus states:

"(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full"

Is this good reason to appeal?

Yes - CP Plus do not use the POFA. Hence you appeal as keeper, using the pre-written blue writing template in the NEWBIES thread. It already says they must 'cancel or rely on the POFA' and tells you to appeal online as keeper.

Can't get much easier to beat than CP Plus! Often they give up first time, if not, beatable at POPLA by a keeper appellant (driver remaining unidentified) because they don't use the POFA.

It is that simple. That's why there are templates, honestly - they work. No need to re-word. No need to reinvent the wheel.

3kisses

Hence you appeal as keeper, using the pre-written blue writing template in the NEWBIES thread. It already says they must 'cancel or rely on the POFA' and tells you to appeal online as keeper.

Can't get much easier to beat than CP Plus! Often they give up first time, if not, beatable at POPLA by a keeper appellant (driver remaining unidentified) because they don't use the POFA.

It is that simple. That's why there are templates, honestly - they work. No need to re-word. No need to reinvent the wheel.[/QUOTE]

I have even gone to the site and taken photos of how the signage is unclear, on bends, too much text, text too small etc, not opposite the pedestrian crossing etc. Should i bother including that?

3kisses

Coupon-mad wrote: »

You don't ''owe'' anything. You wont be paying anything.


Yes - CP Plus do not use the POFA. Hence you appeal as keeper, using the pre-written blue writing template in the NEWBIES thread. It already says they must 'cancel or rely on the POFA' and tells you to appeal online as keeper.

Can't get much easier to beat than CP Plus! Often they give up first time, if not, beatable at POPLA by a keeper appellant (driver remaining unidentified) because they don't use the POFA.

It is that simple. That's why there are templates, honestly - they work. No need to re-word. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Should i avoid using the photographic evidence that I have just taken of their poor signage, with small, dense text, position of signs on bends, lack of lights etc?

twhitehousescat

Should i avoid using the photographic evidence that I have just taken of their poor signage, with small, dense text, position of signs on bends, lack of lights etc?

at which point in the template letter does it state to include photos?


send the BLUE template letter , do not add or alter it , all you want at this stage is communication and a POPLa code

photos etc are for POPLa , not now

Coupon-mad

Really, this is easier than you think.

No need to use photos yet but if they take it to POPLA, you can use pics to make the long appeal longer and prettier.