Appealing to IAS regarding ticket in my own space

Starlemusique

Hi,

I would really appreciate any advice on how to word an appeal based on the fact that I have been issued a ticket in my own allocated space. PCM have rejected my appeal based on the fact that I had agreed to pay a charge by parking there.

I bought my flat and my space prior to the engagement of PCM and have never negotiated the matter privately - I never agreed with their engagement in the first place but this was organised by the site management.

I usually display a permit but had had to move it previously that day to prevent it flying out an open window and then forgot to put it back. However, £100 fine for parking in my own space feels a little excessive.

The signage is a laminated piece of paper as you walk through the door into the car park from the basement of the apartment block. There is little or no signage (I thnk no visable) in the car park itself.

Redx

same advice as in this one , plus any other "own space" pcn like this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5598235

generally we say dont bother with the IAS as its a kangaroo court , let them try a "real court" and then wheel out those other cases like the JOPSON case, the recent VCS loss in Liverpool , plus the others blogged about by parking prankster over the last 6 to 9 months or so (nothing older)

the "excessive" part may not be valid due to BEAVIS, but the fact that its a "penalty" means that the BEAVIS case may work for you on that particular issue

the fact that its your "own space" and as landholder you have not agreed this contract means you could counter claim , like DAVEY versus UKPC (google it) because you have primacy of contract over your own space and nobody can rock up , stick signs on it and start using your space for a business

but the chances are that the duffer at the IAS will ignore the contractual issues and just say the driver failed the signage rules

safarmuk

This is becoming more and more common, it seems PPC's are actively getting into Residential Car Parks now and then also assuming they can hit residents.

You need to check your lease - it will likely give you exclusive use of this allocated parking bay and rights on a first come first served basis for your visitors to use visitors bays - it will likely not say anything about a need for a permit or a £100 invoice if you don't display said permit.

As such speak to the Management Agent and tell them to get this under control. The MA should have the ability to get the ticket cancelled if they engaged the PPC. If they try to fob you off you go straight to the freeholder or their representative.

PCM have rejected my appeal based on the fact that I had agreed to pay a charge by parking there.

This is typical, they are trying to say the charge is valid under contract law, the "contract" being the signage they put up, but you already have a contract (your lease) that allows you to park in the allocated bay. They are simply trying to ignore this fact for their own benefit.

So as I said your best course of action now is to contact the MA and get them to bring the PPC under control and speak to your other residents about this ridiculous situation.

Redx

agreed , its like putting the fox in charge of the hen house , instead of a gamekeeper with a gun pointed outwards

The_Deep

Is your MA a member of a trade body, RICS, ARMA, etc? If so complain to them that one of their members has engaged a rogue company who are trying to interfere with residents' "quiet enjoyment" of their property.


Also complain to your local council Housing Officer and in writing to Trading Standards, avoid Consumer Direct.

Fruitcake

Do you mean that you actually own the parking space, or that you rent it?

If the former, and it appears as yours on the land registry, it would be an ideal opportunity to make a counterclaim and generate income for yourself.

Normally we don't recommend using the IAS kangaroo court appeals system, but getting an IAS rejection from the actual landowner in front of a judge would be a good thing in my opinion. You would be able to hammer the scammers for carrying out a money making scheme on your property without your permission.

Even if you rent the parking space, the terms of your lease/AST will supercede anything the parking scammers make up and since you say you bought the property before the scammers were introduced, I doubt if there is anything in your lease/AST that says anything about displaying a permit.

If you own the parking space, or rent it but without any Ts and Cs concerning permits, I would suggest you never display your permit again and counterclaim every ticket you get. At £250-£750 a pop you could make a bob or two if you are up for a raft of counterclaims.

safarmuk

Normally we don't recommend using the IAS kangaroo court appeals system, but getting an IAS rejection from the actual landowner in front of a judge would be a good thing in my opinion. You would be able to hammer the scammers for carrying out a money making scheme on your property without your permission.

Exactly my thoughts above - do you think we could get the Prankster to consult some of his specialist contacts on this point?

Are your MA a member of a trade body, RICS, ARMA, etc? If so complain to them that one of their members has engaged a rogue company who are trying to interfere with residents' "quiet enjoyment" of their property.

That's a good point, let me look into that. Most MA's are a member of one of three government sanctioned ombudsmen that you can complain to, not tried that yet, its on the list. However hadn't thought about RICS/ARMA....

Redx

either the prankster or the BMPA may be able to help, but you really need to know those contract facts of yours , like ownership , or lease agreements etc before asking them , because they cannot advise you properly until those details are known

same applies on here , its your AST/LEASE or agreement that is of paramount importance here, but you are asking legal questions without informing anyone of what those contracts actually say (or do not say)

if you actually OWN the bay , then the LAND REGISTRY should be able to provide proof , in which case neither the PPC nor the MA have any right to decide what you can do on your land

and not displaying your permit and counter claiming may be a good fightback tool, but only if its your land or you can prove a case in court

you will see these same questions repeated time and time again in similar threads on here

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5598343

ie:- what does your AST/LEASE say ? (or not say ?)

because it all centres on that issue and that question

safarmuk

Agree - and the clauses you are looking for read something like:

"... exclusive right to use the allocated space for parking a motor vehicle ..."
"... right on a first come first served basis for visitors to use the visitors bays ..."
"... right to pass and re-pass to gain egress to the premises ..."

The last one is the clause that won the JOPSON case I believe.

Half_way

If the lease etc is cease then you should go to town on your management company, they are jointly liable fire the actions of their agents.
A quick question: did you pay anything or sign anything for any permits?

safarmuk

A quick question: did you pay anything or sign anything for any permits?

This is directed at you @Starlemusique along with other questions posed that we need the answers to:
1) What does your lease say about parking?
2) Have you spoken to your MA?