Court Claim Form - Advice on how best to proceed - interesting situation!

Loadsofchildren123

Coupon-mad wrote: »

No there is no need to add your wife to the counterclaim because it would be you saying your data has been misappropriated and misused, contrary to the DPA Principles.

Counterclaim would also be for trespass and for interference with quiet/peaceful enjoyment. The trespass might not work as you are not the owner though.


Glad someone got my head round the issue with the wife - I agree with all of the above.


Wife can't join in this counterclaim. She does have a claim of her own (trespass) but I think you can at least try to make that claim, she doesn't need to get involved. Might be a good idea to serve a brief WS from her with the content suggested above confirming you live there together, are married etc.

Coupon-mad

safarmuk wrote: »

Do you have the case reference and claimant / defendant C-M? If so I can add it to my list ...

It was this one v MIL, where the actual leaseholder was his wife but the Judge had no issue with that and threw it out as they owned the flat & had primacy of contract (never mind the usual MIL issues):

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/advocate-admits-he-always-loses-mil.html

He posted on MSE as Stuart Hamilton and the claim number was C4QZ0V26 heard on 27.1.17.

safarmuk

It was this one v MIL, where the actual leaseholder was his wife but the Judge had no issue with that and threw it out as they owned the flat & had primacy of contract (never mind the usual MIL issues):

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/advocate-admits-he-always-loses-mil.html

He posted on MSE as Stuart Hamilton and the claim number was C4QZ0V26 heard on 27.1.17.

Ah yes, Mr H, have that one in my list already - thanks. Did you get my message last night C-M?

Coupon-mad

Oh yes, sorry I did and we've exchanged a reply!

Acidmonkey

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I like your thinking, £500 was a mid-line conservative claim sum and yours is much better and we like to see a real fightback on this board. Well done to you. A real statement.

Yes, post it recorded/signed for (get a PO receipt and include it in your costs folder!) with a cheque for the counter-claim fee to the CCBC in Northampton; the document being physically signed and dated under the defence and counterclaim sections.

Or bargepole has told me in the past, you can instead put a covering letter with the defence & counterclaim, giving your phone number for the court to ring you to take the fee payment by card over the phone, which also means you get to hear they've got it.

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

CPR rule 20.5 - you need the court's leave to add a party.
The application can be made without notice. The court will then give directions about service and a timetable for serving a reply/defence to the counterclaim.

So you have to make an application. An application is made on form N244.

Trouble is, the fee for an application is £255 which is out of all proportion to the claim.

The court does have the power to dispense with a formal application notice - Rule 23.3(2)(b). So you could try writing to the court now (playing dumb as a litigant in person) with a draft of the counterclaim and asking if the court will join the MA as a party. Explain why the MA needs to be a party in the covering letter. Then cross your fingers that the court will make the order in the absence of a formal application. Trouble is the court might ignore it, take too long or say no. If you choose this option and miss the deadline, just file the defence/c'claim against the Claimant on time and deal with this afterwards by way of asking the court's permission to amend the counterclaim and add a 2nd Defendant.

Or just issue the application, but do so now and point out that the order is urgent because of the 7 March deadline and the court can make the order without any notice to the 2nd Defendant. If you win of course you'll get the £255 fee back.

Hope that helps.

Ok - i've just paid £255 fee to add a party to the counterclaim, and the £70 counterclaim fee.

I need to now add the MA to the counterclaim, and explain my reasons for doing so. Where in my defence/counterclaim would I do so, and what would be the best way to do this? (defence and counterclaim are in post #28)

Really appreciate the help given on this board - would be completely lost without your guidance!

Coupon-mad

Acidmonkey wrote: »

Ok - i've just paid £255 fee to add a party to the counterclaim, and the £70 counterclaim fee.

I need to now add the MA to the counterclaim, and explain my reasons for doing so. Where in my defence/counterclaim would I do so, and what would be the best way to do this? (defence and counterclaim are in post #28)

Really appreciate the help given on this board - would be completely lost without your guidance!

I'm not legally qualified and few of us here are - I have never seen this done before:

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part19/pd_part19a#3.1

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part20#20.5

''Counterclaim against a person other than the claimant
20.5
(1) A defendant who wishes to counterclaim against a person other than the claimant must apply to the court for an order that that person be added as an additional party.
(2) An application for an order under paragraph (1) may be made without notice unless the court directs otherwise.
(3) Where the court makes an order under paragraph (1), it will give directions as to the management of the case.''

What directions did the court give for the management of the case now? What form (if any) did the court say you have to complete or have you now been told to provide your written counterclaim particulars to suit the fact a party has been added?

Acidmonkey

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I'm not legally qualified and few of us here are - I have never seen this done before:

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part19/pd_part19a#3.1

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part20#20.5

''Counterclaim against a person other than the claimant
20.5
(1) A defendant who wishes to counterclaim against a person other than the claimant must apply to the court for an order that that person be added as an additional party.
(2) An application for an order under paragraph (1) may be made without notice unless the court directs otherwise.
(3) Where the court makes an order under paragraph (1), it will give directions as to the management of the case.''

What directions did the court give for the management of the case now? What form (if any) did the court say you have to complete or have you now been told to provide your written counterclaim particulars to suit the fact a party has been added?

I was told that as the payment was made, it would be logged onto their systems that I was adding a party - and I should just add the MA in my counterclaim and give my reason(s) for wanting to add another party. (Part 20 request).

Just not too sure in which section of the counterclaim the MA would be added, or where with the MA's contact address would go.

Would the MA and PPC need their own heading each titled "Particulars of Counterclaim (resulting from conduct arising from Case No. Cxxxxxxx)"

Coupon-mad

I would not like to guess. Maybe bargepole can advise.

Loadsofchildren123

I've got a precedent ,I'll look it up tomorrow and post it for you. It's not a parking one, it'll just show you how to typeset it all and what headings to use.

Loadsofchildren123

I think something along these lines. The court will forgive you if it is not perfectly set out. You may consider a trespass counterclaim against the Claimant as well as against the MA/MC.
I hope this hasn't untypeset itself. I can see it's taken out the paragraph numbering, but you can put this in.


IN THE [ ] COUNTY COURTCLAIM NO: [ ]
B E T W E E N:-

[ ]

Claimant

and

[ ]

Defendant

[ ]

Second Defendant

______________________________________________________________

DEFENCE AND COUNTERCLAIM

_____________________________________________________________

DEFENCE

• [Defence: paragraphs of Claim which you admit, which you put C to full proof of, and which you deny and why]
  
  PART 20 COUNTERCLAIM
• [The Defendant repeats paragraphs X to X inclusive above herein – these are whatever you deny and your case].
• Set out your rights under your lease/tenancy [The Defendant purchased the leasehold tenure of [address] on [date] OR The D entered into an assured shorthold tenancy with the owner of the leasehold title of [address] on [date], the terms of which included [set out relevant terms on parking].

• The Second Defendant [MA/MC] has interfered with those rights by contracting with the Claimant to manage the parking. The [lease/tenancy] does not permit the Second Defendant to impose any change on the Defendant to the terms of his [lease/tenancy], such as the requirement to display a permit and the right to charge the Defendant for any failure to do so, and the Defendant has not accepted any such changes.

• Set out particulars of the breaches of your rights.

• The Second Defendant is responsible for the acts of the Claimant, having contracted with it on [date] to manage the parking at [address] and grating it the right to [issue pcns etc].

• [consider a counterclaim against the Claimant: you could apply for an injunction to prohibit it from issuing further pcns to any car parked in the parking space to which you have rights and damages for trespass?] eg the Claimant has interfered with the Defendant’s rights to park contained in his leasehold title/AST by entering on that space without authority to issue his vehicle with a penalty charge notice, thereby committing an act of trespass, causing the Defendant financial loss and distress.

• In the circumstances, the Claimant seeks the following:

• 1. From the Claimant [an injunction prohibiting it from…… together with damages for trespasss in the sum of £…..]
  2. From the Second Defendant damages in respect of loss he has suffered in defending the claim brought by the Claimant, including damages for distress.
     
     AND the Defendant claims:-

• An order that the Claimant be prohibited from entering on the land comprised in the Defendant’s parking space for any purpose
• An order that the Claimant pay damages to compensate him for the Claimant’s trespass
• Damages as against the Second Defendant for losses the Defendant has suffered as a result of the Claimant’s actions and this claim
• Such further or other relief as the court may consider appropriate.
• An order that the Claimant and the Second Defendant do pay the costs of this application.
  
  DATED THIS [ ]th DAY OF [ ] 2017
  
  Statement of Truth
  
  I believe that the facts stated in this Defence and Counterclaim are true.
  
  
  Signed …………………………………
  Defendant
  
  Address for receiving documents
  [ ]