Smart meter incompatibility and chaos

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Deleted_User wrote: »

Hi Malc, the gas meter is:
Liberty EG4v 10
When I spoke to the staff I at E.ON I quoted what you had said in a post. The reaction I got was that it was rubbish and I should ignore your posts and listen to them instead. I asked to be put through to the complaints team and got talking to someone calling himself Rich who denied any knowledge of anyone on MSE officially representing the company. I persisted, saying I had no reason to believe you are anything but genuine but to no avail. After I continued to press him, he conceded he knew nothing about MSE forums and reluctantly agreed to pass on my information to another (but unspecified) team to investigate whether E.ON has an authorised representative here. I await to hear from them.

Thanks picks. I'll send the metering details to the people I mentioned. Will let you know what they say when they come back to me.

I'll also send the reaction you received to our presence on MSE to these managers.

Thanks again picks.

Malc

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc wrote: »

Thanks picks. I'll send the metering details to the people I mentioned. Will let you know what they say when they come back to me.

I'll also send the reaction you received to our presence on MSE to these managers.

Thanks again picks.

Malc

Further to the above picks, I've received confirmation from the managers I mentioned that the information I gave you previously (post #72) was right. Gas meter readings in the top right hand corner of our latest In House Displays are in cubic metres as are those on your meter.

I did find out, whereas the electricity updates the display every 5 seconds, the gas updates every 30 minutes. This is why some advisors, for greater accuracy, tell customers not to rely on the gas reading on the display but to use the meter. I totally understand, given the difficulties you have reading the meter, this isn't practical for you. As I mentioned earlier, in most cases, we take readings every month but we can take them remotely at any time. If you prefer to use the one from the meter rather than the display, I'd suggest calling our Smart Teams when you need a reading in between the monthly schedule. They'll be happy to do this for you. Please ask them to 'poll a reading.'

Thanks for your patience picks and have a good weekend. I'm back in the office on Tuesday if you need any more details although Helena will be in Monday.

Malc

[Deleted User]

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc wrote: »

Further to the above picks, I've received confirmation from the managers I mentioned that the information I gave you previously (post #72) was right. Gas meter readings in the top right hand corner of our latest In House Displays are in cubic metres as are those on your meter.

I did find out, whereas the electricity updates the display every 5 seconds, the gas updates every 30 minutes.

Hi Malc, yes I was aware that because the gas meter is not fully connected to mains electricity it only communicates with the display at 30 minute intervals. In practice, this is something that doesn't bother me and I'm happy to supply a gas meter reading knowing of this possible slight delay.

I don't know what exactly constitutes the "latest In House Display" but I can assure you that my in-house display very clearly shows the gas reading and identifies this as being in kWh. In theory maybe someone could argue that the reading is actually in cubic metres and my display has a fault in telling me it's kWh. However, I invite you to read my earlier post (timestamped 28th Mar 17, 12:39 PM) in which I said that about a week ago I took a gas reading on my in-house display which said:
000569
On the very same day E.ON took a remote reading of my gas meter and they read:
00050

Now I appreciate that I may have taken my reading at a different time during that day from the time E.ON took its reading. Further, I accept that my display reading may be up to 30 minutes out due to the way the gas meter interworks with my in-house display. However, if I divide my in-house display reading (569) by E.ONs reading (50), simple arithmetic says that there is a factor of 11.38 between the two readings. I need some convincing that my in-house display measures gas in cubic meters when compared with E,ON's when the reading is out by a factor of 11.38. Is not a simpler explanation that 11.38 is more or less the the multiplication factor between cubic metres and kWh? Am I really to believe that my in-house display shows gas readings in cubic meters or have I a one-off in-house display different (measuring gas in kWh) from all similar looking displays installed at E.ON customers which you assure me all measure in cubic metres?

Michaelw

Thanks for the information although I can't locate it on E.ONs website. I raised this with E.ON but their front-line staff had never heard of SMETS1/2 either. Only after a lengthy discussion and several telephone calls did they finally came back confirming what you have have said. They certainly couldn't give me any estimated date for commencement of roll out.

Thats exactly the problem Whats being installed at the moment are first generation meters who use mobile phone signals instead of an upcoming DCC network.These in the main are not always compatable with other suppliers instead meters need to read manually.

Here are some excerpts

Instead they will get inferior meters that cost more and make it harder to switch suppliers, the boss of EDF said.
Around 2million inferior ‘first generation’ smart meters – codenamed SMETS 1 - have already been installed.
Some users have complained that when they try to switch to different suppliers, the smart meters no longer work.


EDF Energy does not believe that SMETS 1 meters are right for customers as they are
not interoperable, are not secure, and do not
deliver any of the network benefits. We
therefore believe that SMETS 1 meters should be limited to testing and trialling and
the mass roll-out of smart meters should not start until SMETS 2 meters are available
which will deliver the best customer experience.

System

Michaelw wrote: »

Thanks for the information although I can't locate it on E.ONs website. I raised this with E.ON but their front-line staff had never heard of SMETS1/2 either. Only after a lengthy discussion and several telephone calls did they finally came back confirming what you have have said. They certainly couldn't give me any estimated date for commencement of roll out.

Thats exactly the problem Whats being installed at the moment are first generation meters who use mobile phone signals instead of an upcoming DCC network.These in the main are not always compatable with other suppliers instead meters need to read manually.

Here are some excerpts

Instead they will get inferior meters that cost more and make it harder to switch suppliers, the boss of EDF said.
Around 2million inferior ‘first generation’ smart meters – codenamed SMETS 1 - have already been installed.
Some users have complained that when they try to switch to different suppliers, the smart meters no longer work.


EDF Energy does not believe that SMETS 1 meters are right for customers as they are
not interoperable, are not secure, and do not
deliver any of the network benefits. We
therefore believe that SMETS 1 meters should be limited to testing and trialling and
the mass roll-out of smart meters should not start until SMETS 2 meters are available
which will deliver the best customer experience.

Suppliers are not required to install SMETS2 meters until later this year. The Govt has directed that the DCC is look at ways of 'orphaning' SMETS1 meters on to the DCC network. There are no plans to replace SMETS1 meters until End of Life has been reached given that it is estimated that by the end of this year some 10M SMETS1 meters will have been installed.

barmonkey

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc wrote: »

If you're interested in going down this route, have a chat to our specialist Smart Teams (contact details will be on the letter we've sent and our website). They'll soon be able to tell you if we're now in a position to fit a smart meter. If not, they'll stop bothering you with these requests.

Hope this helps barmonkey.

Malc

I have spoken to them, the last letter asking me to phone them came last week. Still cant have one though.

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Deleted_User wrote: »

Hi Malc, yes I was aware that because the gas meter is not fully connected to mains electricity it only communicates with the display at 30 minute intervals. In practice, this is something that doesn't bother me and I'm happy to supply a gas meter reading knowing of this possible slight delay.

I don't know what exactly constitutes the "latest In House Display" but I can assure you that my in-house display very clearly shows the gas reading and identifies this as being in kWh. In theory maybe someone could argue that the reading is actually in cubic metres and my display has a fault in telling me it's kWh. However, I invite you to read my earlier post (timestamped 28th Mar 17, 12:39 PM) in which I said that about a week ago I took a gas reading on my in-house display which said:
000569
On the very same day E.ON took a remote reading of my gas meter and they read:
00050

Now I appreciate that I may have taken my reading at a different time during that day from the time E.ON took its reading. Further, I accept that my display reading may be up to 30 minutes out due to the way the gas meter interworks with my in-house display. However, if I divide my in-house display reading (569) by E.ONs reading (50), simple arithmetic says that there is a factor of 11.38 between the two readings. I need some convincing that my in-house display measures gas in cubic meters when compared with E,ON's when the reading is out by a factor of 11.38. Is not a simpler explanation that 11.38 is more or less the the multiplication factor between cubic metres and kWh? Am I really to believe that my in-house display shows gas readings in cubic meters or have I a one-off in-house display different (measuring gas in kWh) from all similar looking displays installed at E.ON customers which you assure me all measure in cubic metres?

Afternoon picks.

Have to say, I've every confidence in what I'm being told by colleagues and managers who deal with these displays on an almost daily basis. That's not to say I don't agree with what you're saying. I suspect your display either hasn't been set up properly or it's simply faulty. The one I've been talking about is as per our website.

Going forward, I suggest a technician visits to see what's happening and to go through the set up again. You'll need to book this directly with our Smart Teams as this work is ring fenced and general advisors won't be able to make these bookings. Contact details are on our website and are the same as those you've mentioned in another thread.

Thanks picks.

Malc

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Michaelw wrote: »

Thanks for the information although I can't locate it on E.ONs website. I raised this with E.ON but their front-line staff had never heard of SMETS1/2 either. Only after a lengthy discussion and several telephone calls did they finally came back confirming what you have have said. They certainly couldn't give me any estimated date for commencement of roll out.

Thats exactly the problem Whats being installed at the moment are first generation meters who use mobile phone signals instead of an upcoming DCC network.These in the main are not always compatable with other suppliers instead meters need to read manually.

Here are some excerpts

Instead they will get inferior meters that cost more and make it harder to switch suppliers, the boss of EDF said.
Around 2million inferior ‘first generation’ smart meters – codenamed SMETS 1 - have already been installed.
Some users have complained that when they try to switch to different suppliers, the smart meters no longer work.


EDF Energy does not believe that SMETS 1 meters are right for customers as they are
not interoperable, are not secure, and do not
deliver any of the network benefits. We
therefore believe that SMETS 1 meters should be limited to testing and trialling and
the mass roll-out of smart meters should not start until SMETS 2 meters are available
which will deliver the best customer experience.

Hello Michaelw.

Apart from in general terms, we don't have a specific date for when we'll start to roll out of SMETS 2 meters. As Hengus says, we're looking at this coming autumn but no actual definite dates yet.

Smart meters are dealt with by a separate part of the business. Our general front line advisors, whilst knowing something of these meters, won't have the level of specific knowledge the Smart Teams have.

Sorry I can't give you more specific information at this point in time Michaelw.

Malc

[Deleted User]

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc wrote: »

Afternoon picks.

Have to say, I've every confidence in what I'm being told by colleagues and managers who deal with these displays on an almost daily basis. That's not to say I don't agree with what you're saying. I suspect your display either hasn't been set up properly or it's simply faulty. The one I've been talking about is as per our website.

Hi Malc. I've gone through it with several people in the smart metering team, including today. All of them have confirmed my observation that the gas meter reading on the in-house display is in kWh. They assure me that's correct and, if I want to give them a meter reading from the display, I must convert that reading to cubic meters first. Then, when my bill is being produced, E.ON converts my reading back into kWh before multiplying it by the unit rate. When I told one agent last week about your posting here saying a manager confirming the different scenario you've described, she replied that it was wrong and (I paraphrase):
Ignore what managers say, talk to those of us in the team here who know the answer.

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

barmonkey wrote: »

I have spoken to them, the last letter asking me to phone them came last week. Still cant have one though.

Sorry you can't have a smart meter at the moment barmonkey. Now you've registered, we'll be in touch as soon as we're able to offer one for your home. We're committed to being able to offer these meters to all our residential customers by 2020.

Malc