My view on Pensions

mgdavid

Rachel_Pierson wrote: »

I can guarantee that every time I discuss pensions with a group, someone will ask that question. My answer is always the same - "the same as you, but I won't be propping up a Ponzi scheme for 40 years first". The fact, as I see it, is this: we're all going to have a crap retirement, unless we invest wisely ourselves outside of pension provision. Name me one person that wasn't an MP that can live on their pension alone today? Most people rely on a combination of other investments to supplement what amounts to a pretty meagre sum from their pension.

So, my question to you is, what are you going to do when your pension isn't enough to support your retuirement? Same as me probably, except your investments may be worth less because you've had less funds available to invest whilst you were working.[/QUOTE

Me.

An ordinary working guy, didn't go to university, always tried to choose decent blue-chip employers.
Retired in 2014 with a couple of DB pensions, an S32 with 8% GAR, and some DC pots which combined to form a 6-figure SIPP.
Am drawing down sufficient to keep me just under the 40% tax threshold and living very well thankyou.

As to the rest of your post(s) - what utter tosh!

PS - I had AVCs - never worked in the public sector.
Your assumptions are staggeringly wide of the mark in so many ways.

davieg11

Rachel_Pierson wrote: »

Right. It's getting late. Thank you all for your opinions, even those I didn't agree with or that contained the words "rant" or "@rse". Although I remain convinced pensions are a bad investment, it's interesting to get an alternative perspective. So thank you for that.

Thank goodness you are gone. £100 comes from my wage which after tax and salary sacrifice only costs me £68 from my take home pay. My work puts in £200. So I get £3600 a year saved up in a pension and I only pay £816 from my wage. After doing this for 30 years and I have £200,000 in my pension and retire at an early age, I'll get £50k tax free, while you have nothing, and I will drawdown £12.5k (or whatever the tax free allowance is at the time), every year and not pay a penny in tax. Wow what a bad investment as you put it!!!!

bowlhead99

davieg11 wrote: »

Thank goodness you are gone.

Step one, go to a forum populated by people who understand pensions legislation and the concepts around retirement planning and discuss it daily.

Step two, post a lot of misguided and inaccurate 'facts' as your justification for not liking pensions (even when funded by free money from an employer), which conflate issues across different types of scheme.

Step three, ignore the responses which correct all your points and simply restate the points in a different order without acknowledging that they are out of date or irrelevant or fundamentally flawed.

Step four, if someone has a persuasive argument and worked examples that shows your idea of refusing the free money to be terrible, simply state that it is better to be in control of your own destiny because we can't know the future - wilfully ignoring the fact that you can control the choice of underlying investments and the withdrawal date of a DC pension, even while taking free money off the employer and free money off the tax man (through tax free lump sum and the deferral of an income tax charge until you are on a lower or zero marginal rate of income tax)

Step five, graciously thank everyone for their collective responses (over thirty posts in total out of fifty ish) while informing them that you remain convinced that pensions are bad despite nobody else agreeing with the substance of your eighteen posts.

Step six, retire for the evening as king or queen of the internet trolls and then pop back for 'just one more final thing' to try and get the last word before bedtime.

[Deleted User]

bowlhead99 wrote: »

.... pop back for 'just one more final thing' .....

Sounds like a scene from Columbo if anybody can remember what he used to do - The late Peter Falk was the actor.

Triumph13

Sleazy wrote: »

Sounds like a scene from Columbo if anybody can remember what he used to do - The late Peter Falk was the actor.

My wife loved his programme...

chucknorris

Triumph13 wrote: »

My wife loved his programme...

I never plan to watch them, but if I stumble on one, I usually watch it until the end, or record the remainder of it, if I switch over for something else.

Triumph13

Actually, I've got a nasty suspicion that 'My wife loves your programme' might actually have been part of Mike Yarwood's impression of Columbo rather than a real quote.:(

Malthusian

Who needs a pension when you plan on retiring under a bridge and eating billy goats?

Sleep well OP, we'll see you in 30 years' time when you've founded the 2046 equivalent of WASPI and are complaining that "nobody told me I should have saved for my retirement".

Rachel_Pierson

Malthusian wrote: »

Who needs a pension when you plan on retiring under a bridge and eating billy goats?

Sleep well OP, we'll see you in 30 years' time when you've founded the 2046 equivalent of WASPI and are complaining that "nobody told me I should have saved for my retirement".

Funny how people that disagree with you but can't explain why always resort to name calling and allegations of trolling, even when it's demonstrably risible to do so as I've explained my own views and reasons for holding same several times. What do you do in real life when people disagree with you? Tell them their pants are on fire? Stick your fingers in your ears and go "la la la" until they go away?

I can see why people who've paid into pension schemes for years have a vested interest in encouraging others to join. The people at the top of any pyramid scheme are always its most ardent proponents. Because if new mugs don't join, the scheme will collapse, after those at the top have paid in for years but before they get any benefit from doing so.

The sort of DB schemes some people have mentioned in this thread simply aren't available to future pensioners now. (And when one was available to me about 10 years ago, it was accompanied by a crap salary; that seemed to be the trade off.) DB pensioners are however funded by pension providers encouraging people to sign up for far less beneficial schemes today to pay for yesterday's promises that they now realise it'll be challenging for them to keep.

As for the PPF that some people have mentioned, I don't see that stepping in to help members of the BHS scheme who are not yet drawing down in obtaining their "free money", so they can transfer what they're due to another more stable scheme. Who do you think will be paying for the loss of interest those pension savers will experience in the mean time? (Clue: it won't by the taxpayer / PPF / or indeed Philip Green. It'll be the poor sods whose pension savings have been squandered on bonuses for Phil and his pals.)

People will take out a pension if they want. Some of them will be railroaded into doing so via the illusion of choice that automatically opting people in and forcing them to opt out every three years provides. But some, like me, will decide long term that they're not interested in a pension, and will keep jumping through hoops to opt out, resenting it more and more every time we have to.

Rachel_Pierson

davieg11 wrote: »

Thank goodness you are gone. £100 comes from my wage which after tax and salary sacrifice only costs me £68 from my take home pay. My work puts in £200. So I get £3600 a year saved up in a pension and I only pay £816 from my wage. After doing this for 30 years and I have £200,000 in my pension and retire at an early age, I'll get £50k tax free, while you have nothing, and I will drawdown £12.5k (or whatever the tax free allowance is at the time), every year and not pay a penny in tax. Wow what a bad investment as you put it!!!!

Dream on. Never mind, maybe some day they'll make a special forum just for people that agree with you.