Help enforcing CCJ

mattyprice4004

fatbelly wrote: »

Hi

I can't add much to my previous post as all the options are set out there.

He's giving you £100 per month which is good. But it will take over 100 months to repay you and this could stop at any time.

He's given you an income/expenditure statement - does that justify the £100 per month as his only spare money? Are there any other clues that could help you, like does it say mortgage or rent; does he pay car finance? Is there anything obviously false on there?

When an estate agent talks about cashing investments, I am guessing that means property. Any way you can find out if he owns anywhere? You can of course find this out through an order to obtain information, but there is an up-front cost to that.

If you can find a property that he owns (and a £3 Land Registry search will confirm) then you can do a charging order - then when it sells you get your money.

Most people now think 'HCEO warrant of control' due to the wonderful marketing campaigns that the BBC and other channels lay on free for them. But if the flashy car is on HP and he won't let them in to where he lives, then they are neutered (but you don't see that on The Sheriffs are Coming)

You clearly don't watch it then. They regularly fail to seize due to ownership issues.

bris

You will find as a successful business man that he is cleverer than your average person, in other words he knows how to hide his assets.


If he has a property then get the charging order on it, this is the worst thing you can do to him because then he is snookered and unable to hide from that. Interest is also payable, the longer it's on the more he has to pay.

steampowered

If this person genuinely has no assets and no income, or all his income is used to pay creditors, then it is true the Op will find it difficult to get blood from a stone.

However - we don't know whether this person is telling the truth. We already know he is almost certainly lying about contacting ringing up the court and being told on the phone he only needs to pay £100 a month. So there is a very good chance he is fibbing about other things too.

The only way to really establish whether this person has any assets is to send the HCEOs round, or seek an order that he attend court for questioning. I personally think the HCEO route is worth a shot.

Charging orders are great but might not result in the Op being paid for years.

fatbelly

Getting a charging order does not stop you from using another form of enforcement so nothing to stop you going down multiple routes if that's what you want to do.

mimi1234

Thanks to all that have replied. I appreciate your time and advice.

steampowered wrote: »

If you don't think this person is being truthful, I personally would just go ahead and engage bailiffs (HCEOs).

There is no guarantee of success but it sounds like your best option. Let the bailiffs try and see what assets they can get their hands on, particularly that snazzy car.

Other options include seeking an attachment of earnings (if he is employed), seeking a charging order over his house (if he owns property), or making him attend court for questioning about what assets he owns.

As I'm sure you already suspect, this is a complete fib. That isn't how the courts work.

There is no need to involve your solicitor with using bailiffs. As you have a CCJ any HCEO firm is able to assist you from here.

No, it isn't. If he wants to ask the court to set payments he would need to make a formal application for that. The form looks like this: https://formfinder.hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/n245-eng.pdf

Thanks STEAMPOWERED. My brain is completely frazzled hence being unable to think straight. You have pointed things out very clearly and it makes sense now.

I spoke to Money Claim Online once I got the CCJ and they kept telling me to get the HCEO's on the case. I kept thinking he would pay up if I told him I was going to progress with enforcement but it made no difference. I've had a look on the website and there are 3 HCEO's that are quite close to here. It says I can phone their office and speak about the case to see what they might or might not be able to retreive, so that is what I will be doing next week.

As far as I am aware, he has (at least) 2 houses in this country, and I am certain he once said he had 1 in Turkey (he goes on holiday there regularly). He is a property broker and is a director of a company. Looking at his income and expenditure form he sent to me, he is a director but only earns £1600 a month? His wife claims working tax credits for his children. On the sheet, he says he is in mortgage arrears but I am 100% sure he owns the house and has told me this a few times.

I've worked in local authority housing in the past where homeless people with debts to the Council had to do an income and expenditure form but we then passed them on to CAB for debt advice so I am unsure what the actual process is. Do people actually have to prove their income and expenditure or can they just put random things on there? The snazzy car is not essential and he could downgrade it to a less snazzy one which would cost him less surely? Again, I am certain he told me he owns the car yet on the income and expenditure he says he is leasing it?

fatbelly wrote: »

He's giving you £100 per month which is good. But it will take over 100 months to repay you and this could stop at any time.

He's given you an income/expenditure statement - does that justify the £100 per month as his only spare money? Are there any other clues that could help you, like does it say mortgage or rent; does he pay car finance? Is there anything obviously false on there?

When an estate agent talks about cashing investments, I am guessing that means property. Any way you can find out if he owns anywhere? You can of course find this out through an order to obtain information, but there is an up-front cost to that.

If you can find a property that he owns (and a £3 Land Registry search will confirm) then you can do a charging order - then when it sells you get your money.

Most people now think 'HCEO warrant of control' due to the wonderful marketing campaigns that the BBC and other channels lay on free for them. But if the flashy car is on HP and he won't let them in to where he lives, then they are neutered (but you don't see that on The Sheriffs are Coming)

Thanks FATBELLY. I don't believe a word of the income and expenditure statement but I am unsure if someone actually verifies this or whether it is just his word and the numbers he puts on there. From what I know about him, he is lying about the house(s) and the car. I also find it hard to believe someone who is on just £1600 a month and has a debt management plan and heaps of debts/loans/credit cards can fly off on holiday with his family 3/4 times a year. Maybe I am being cynical and stupid but it just doesn't add up?

I've done some research on charging orders thanks to the information some of the posters have provided and will be going full throttle with that along with the HCEO's.

I actually watched The Sherifs programme and that kind of pushed me into getting this sorted once and for all. Unfortunately, most of the people on that were owed between a few hundred pounds and £5k and most of the people paid up. There was one where they went to a restaurant somewhere down South but HMRC/Council Tax had already put a claim on all the items in the restaurant. Does anyone remember what happened to the person who sent the HCEO's round? Did they get anything back? I can't remember to be honest. Can anyone recall what happened?

bris wrote: »

You will find as a successful business man that he is cleverer than your average person, in other words he knows how to hide his assets.

If he has a property then get the charging order on it, this is the worst thing you can do to him because then he is snookered and unable to hide from that. Interest is also payable, the longer it's on the more he has to pay.

Thanks BRIS. You are definitely right there. Knowing how cunning this guy is, I would not be surprised if he has "handed" over some or parts of his business to his brother and sister. They all work together. However, I am sure the court will be able to look into when, if he did, "hand" over the assets to others and see if there is anything dodgy going on. Or at least I hope so.

The interest is definitely going to add up - I need to do a calculation of it. I can't accept the interest due to religious reasons but I have already earmarked a few charities where this will go to. I should probably send all you helpful folk a cheque for helping me out like this. :-)

steampowered wrote: »

If this person genuinely has no assets and no income, or all his income is used to pay creditors, then it is true the Op will find it difficult to get blood from a stone.

However - we don't know whether this person is telling the truth. We already know he is almost certainly lying about contacting ringing up the court and being told on the phone he only needs to pay £100 a month. So there is a very good chance he is fibbing about other things too.

The only way to really establish whether this person has any assets is to send the HCEOs round, or seek an order that he attend court for questioning. I personally think the HCEO route is worth a shot.

Charging orders are great but might not result in the Op being paid for years.

Thanks STEAMPOWERED. I was a bit worried about sending the HCEO's around because I didn't think they would be able to get a penny out of him, but sod that, I can't always be cautious Kate. I'm going to have to try it and see what happens. Hopefully he will break and agree to pay me back. If not, there is always plan B and plan C etc.

Where I think I went wrong was about 12 months into the agreed investment when he defaulted on his returns. I would get a certain % back each month and he would pay me this monthly but that kind of hit the rails after 12 months. He also owes me a lot of the returns too! The excuses kept coming over and over again. I should have known from then it was going to end up in tears and I should have pulled out of the investment there and then. My solicitor put in a clause that if the returns were not received for more than 3 months, I would have the opportunity to pull the plug on the investment and recoup it all. Unfortunately, this business man came up with every excuse under the sun and I thought I would give him the benefit of the doubt. I was obviously too naive and trusting. I genuinely thought the business man was trustworthy et all.

He has been telling me he has some big investment deals coming up for the last 2 years and that he will be able to pay me back straight but these have never happened. I did threaten him with further legal action but I never followed it up, so I think he thinks I am too scaredy cat to do anything but I think I have had enough and it's crunch time.

I think I have prepared myself if the HCEO's/charging orders are unable to get anything back but it's worth a shot. I am sick and tired of his lies!


I would like to thank each and every one of you for replying to my initial post and subsequent posts. I have been stressing my head off unsure what to do next and you have all helped me a lot. This would have cost me a bomb in solicitors fees so I truly appreciate all the help you have given and the money you have also saved me. I owe you all a pint or three and a couple of pizzas too.

Thank you so very much.

mimi1234

A quick update. I got in touch with a HCEO. I've applied for a writ which has been sent off for and waiting a response from them.

I doubt I will be getting all my money back but there is no harm in trying is there?

Thanks again for all your help.

mimi1234

So the writ was sent off to the debtor a fortnight ago.

The HCEO's office are very cloak and dagger. They are not very forthcoming with information. I've asked for contact details of the HCEO and I am awaiting a response.

I received a text from the debtor yesterday wanting to arrange a meeting so we could have a chat. I don't have to reply to the text do I? I don't want to discuss anything, I just want all my money back which was due about 2 years ago.

naedanger

mimi1234 wrote: »

I received a text from the debtor yesterday wanting to arrange a meeting so we could have a chat.

I don't have to reply to the text do I?

No, just ignore it. You certainly are not obliged to meet him and to do so would seem a very bad idea. If he contacts you in a way you can't ignore then just say all communication needs to be either in writing via email/letter or via the HCEO.

mimi1234

naedanger wrote: »

No, just ignore it. You certainly are not obliged to meet him and to do so would seem a very bad idea. If he contacts you in a way you can't ignore then just say all communication needs to be either in writing via email/letter or via the HCEO.

Thanks, that's what I will do.

I wouldn't be surprised if he goes bankrupt in the next few weeks but that's a risk I will have to take.

daytona0

Forgive my possible ignorance, but doesn't an "investment" carry the risk of losing the money you put in?

And what's with the fees and interest? By all means throw on the charges for your CCJ application, but are you really still running the juice on a debt AFTER obtaining a CCJ?! Seems a bit heavy-handed to me... The guy obviously cannot pay the 10k without bailiffs on his door (and maybe not even then!). Fair play to the guy for paying £100 back a month though, at least he's not running away from the debt.