Allegation of fly-tipping.

lythrodondas

Hi all - apologies if this is the wrong board, but previous fly-tipping issues have been posted here!

Bought a new house last summer and commissioned a professional builders' firm to undertake renovation work, including removal of an interior wall and external items (coal bunker, brick shed and lean-to). Budgeted and paid for disposal and agreed that a skip would be hired. We were offsite until September, when we moved into the house, and I met the builder most weeks for a progress update.

In October we received a letter inviting us to respond to questions under caution as apparently waste had been disposed of illegally - in a different borough - and had included old post to the address. The builder, with whom the relationship has since broken down, claims to have Waste Transfer Notes for disposals but refused to release them to us on request.

I have now received a second letter to go in for questioning shortly. From what I have researched, on one hand I took all reasonable actions to have waste disposed of properly, but on the other hand I am mindful that local authorities are cracking down on this area, and in particular to avoid homeowners deliberately evading responsibility. Any views on what I should do, or how much trouble I am likely to be in, would be appreciated.

marliepanda

Show the council the invoice/bill. Basically prove to the council that you paid the builder to dispose properly of it. The council will then go to the builder. You don't need to get the proof from the builder yourself (or shouldn't)

lythrodondas

Thanks very much. I have invoices that describe the area of work - for example the removal of the wall - but do not itemise 'knocking out, disposing of bricks' etc. I will present those, but are you saying that if I can prove that I genuinely paid for and expected that waste disposal was done properly, I am not liable and the waste transfer note needs to be provided by the builder?

G_M

Clearly if you demonstrate that you paid for responsible removal of waste, then the builder, not you, is liable.

However you don't say what kind of waste it is. Other than that it includes "old post to the address." That does not sound like builders waste.

If the 'old post' is in the name of a previous occupant, then clearly you can argue the flytiping predates your ownership and is noting to do wth you.

But if the post is dated post your purchase, AND is not part of builders waste (ie is household waste) then you are in tricky position.

Did you by any chance have a hissy fit regarding previous owners mail still coming to your address, and chuck it out of a car window......?

lythrodondas

Quite why the builders also threw out post (whether ours or the previous owner's) is a good question, as they shouldn't have thrown it out at all!

Regrettably, I didn't throw it out of a car window (as had I done, I presume I'd not have received legal action notices about fly-tipping). To answer your other question, the council in question has not disclosed exactly what they found, so how much was letters, how much was bricks etc, and how much was other people's waste, I am none the wiser. 😕

TBagpuss

G_M wrote: »

Clearly if you demonstrate that you paid for responsible removal of waste, then the builder, not you, is liable.

However you don't say what kind of waste it is. Other than that it includes "old post to the address." That does not sound like builders waste.

If the 'old post' is in the name of a previous occupant, then clearly you can argue the flytiping predates your ownership and is noting to do wth you.

But if the post is dated post your purchase, AND is not part of builders waste (ie is household waste) then you are in tricky position.

Did you by any chance have a hissy fit regarding previous owners mail still coming to your address, and chuck it out of a car window......?

I don't think the bolded is strictly true. It is not enough just to have paid someone to dispose of the waste, you have to show that you took reasonable measures to ensure that the waste is going to be disposed of properly - the advice given by councils etc is to ask for the builder's 'waste carrier number' and check this is valid on the Environment Agency's online register.

However, it would in the first instance be for your to explain at the interview what steps you did take and what reason you had to believe that the builders had an appropriate licence.

|If they are not satisfied then you could face a fine - probably less than £500.

eddddy

Based on what you say - you seem to be jumping to massive conclusions.

The council say that some letters with your address have been fly-tipped, and you are assuming that it relates to some building work you had done.

Fly tipping might mean one black bag of household rubbish, or a handful of papers thrown on the ground.

eddddy

... in fact, some councils treat putting rubbish out for collection on the wrong day as fly-tipping, or putting excess rubbish next to a full wheelie bin on collection day as fly-tipping.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/22/mothers-270-fly-tipping-fine-putting-rubbish-wrong-day-outside/

The_Earl_of_Streatham

You have received an invitation, you are under no obligation to accept it.

The people who invited you are paid to get convictions. Their motivation is not to exculpate you. They are obliged to investigate, you are not obliged to help them. If they have sufficient evidence they will charge you whether you've helped them or not.

I have accompanied someone at a similar interview and quickly formed the view that the procedure was not there to help. I also formed the view that I was not the appropriate person to be there. My friend should have had a solicitor, though I doubt that would have helped much.

They have a limited obligation for disclosure before the interview but in your case I suspect they've discharged this in the letter, since they've told you basically all they've got.

What they've got is your address, not a builder's. You're unlikely to persuade them to go after the builder. This process is not an evaluation of your defence, it's collection of evidence to get a prosecution.

Don't think, either, that this will nip the matter in the bud. If you do volunteer for interview you will be left waiting weeks possibly months to see if they are going to proceed. The anxiety this causes will be indistinguishable from the worry you'll feel having not helped them and will be similar in duration.

Local authorities are under enormous financial pressure and every department is anxious to show they're pulling their weight; if there's a conviction to pursue you can be sure they'll be going for it.

I am not a lawyer, treat this advice as you would advice from a stranger in a pub.

missile

Does OP have to attend this meeting? I would be very wary of attending any meeting where I might inadvertently implicate myself.

This is second request, what happened to first?

Can he simply respond and state he is not guilty of fly tipping and has no knowledge of who has dumped rubbish including mail addressed to previous owner.

sparky130a

Bear in mind matters pertaining to illegal waste transfer are in many cases strict liability.....