Entitled to drive minibus

Joe_Horner

unforeseen wrote: »

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/driving-school-minibuses-advice-for-schools-and-local-authorities

Appears to say that it wouldn't be hire and rewarx

If you follow that page through to the full explanation in the document linked then you get this:

10. In our view, if the terms and conditions of a teacher’s contract of employment state that driving minibuses is a part of their duties, or if a teacher is paid an additional sum specifically for driving the minibus (other than a sum to reimburse the teacher for out of pocket expenses on a cost recovery basis), such staff would be deemed as receiving payment for driving a minibus and would not be driving the minibus ‘on a voluntary basis’. In these cases, a full D1 licence (or a full D licence) would be needed.

11. However, in our view, if a teacher’s contract of employment does not state that driving minibuses is part of their duties and they receive no additional payment for driving a minibus to take pupils on trips or to social sporting events (except for reimbursement for out of pocket expenses), they will be driving on an extra-contractual, voluntary basis. In this case, the category B licence would suffice (assuming the conditions are met) even if the school reimburses the teacher for fuel, parking and tolls

So, if the driving duties are in the employment contract (ie: "part of the duties") then it's driving for hire & reward regardless of whether or not there's a "direct" payment by the passengers.

If the driving is on a voluntary, not contractual, basis then it's not for hire & reward

Car_54

Joe_Horner wrote: »

If you follow that page through to the full explanation in the document linked then you get this:



So, if the driving duties are in the employment contract (ie: "part of the duties") then it's driving for hire & reward regardless of whether or not there's a "direct" payment by the passengers.

If the driving is on a voluntary, not contractual, basis then it's not for hire & reward

But the document says repeatedly "in our view" and on page 3 it specifically says:

"This advice does not constitute legal advice nor is it a ruling on the law"

Joe_Horner

Car_54 wrote: »

But the document says repeatedly "in our view" and on page 3 it specifically says:

"This advice does not constitute legal advice nor is it a ruling on the law"

Agreed.

But, as the source of the law in the first place, the government's published "view" of what it's intended to mean - in a specific communication aimed at affected groups - is fairly persuasive.

gingerdad

Regardless if you passed after 1997 you can't carry more than 8 passengers without taking an extra test to get D1. If it's for commercial use you also need a PCV. Schools can use a and voluntary groups can use a permit to get round the Commerical requirement for school trips etc.

Bigphil1474

If you passed your test in 2000 then you won't have the D1 on the back of your photo license card. As previous poster said, you can still drive a minibus if you meet those conditions he listed, but it has not to be for hire or reward. I think the teacher example is a bit off topic, because they are doing the driving as part of or related to their job, which could be argued as normal duties or voluntary duties, but still connected with their work and their employer. Yours would be unrelated to work.
Unless you are paying the full cost of vehicle hire and fuel etc. out of your own pocket entirely, I think it could be argued that you are receiving a 'reward' by providing the service. Probably not be an issue unless something happened on your journey or there was an insurance claim involved, but you can't expect there not to be.
To me, your best bet would be to speak to a reputable hire company and see what they say - can't see them letting you drive off in their shiny mini bus if you aren't legal. Obviously, the key word is reputable.

Billy_Bullocks

Bigphil1474 wrote: »

If you passed your test in 2000 then you won't have the D1 on the back of your photo license card. As previous poster said, you can still drive a minibus if you meet those conditions he listed, but it has not to be for hire or reward. I think the teacher example is a bit off topic, because they are doing the driving as part of or related to their job, which could be argued as normal duties or voluntary duties, but still connected with their work and their employer. Yours would be unrelated to work.
Unless you are paying the full cost of vehicle hire and fuel etc. out of your own pocket entirely, I think it could be argued that you are receiving a 'reward' by providing the service. Probably not be an issue unless something happened on your journey or there was an insurance claim involved, but you can't expect there not to be.
To me, your best bet would be to speak to a reputable hire company and see what they say - can't see them letting you drive off in their shiny mini bus if you aren't legal. Obviously, the key word is reputable.

That's just nonsense.

forgotmyname

Who pays for it is not the issue, unless the driver made a profit from charging the passengers.
The number of seats and the weight limit. Sister passed after 1997 and she enquired and they said they have a couple where they simply remove some seats to stay legal.

shayne66

thanks for all the info everyone, sent a local rental company an email last night.

cheers

Bigphil1474

Billy_Bullocks wrote: »

That's just nonsense.

Billy, not according to the https://www.gov.uk/driving-a-minibus website which says :-
"If the minibus is not for ‘hire or reward’

You might be able to drive a minibus with up to 16 passenger seats using your current car driving licence as long as there’s no payment from or on behalf of the passengers (it’s not for ‘hire or reward’)."


It goes on to say :-
"Minibus permit - if you need to charge running costs

You can apply for a minibus permit if you need to charge passengers, as long as:

• the vehicle can carry between 9 and 16 passengers
• you’re driving it for a voluntary organisation that benefits the community - eg an educational, religious or sports organisation
• the minibus service is only available for members of that organisation - not to the general public
• any charges are to cover running costs and are not for profit

Apply for a minibus permit from your local authority, or contact DVSA."


Unless I'm being daft, which isn't unknown, that means, if you receive any payment, it is for hire or reward, if you want to charge running costs, you need a permit.

Billy_Bullocks

Bigphil1474 wrote: »

Billy, not according to the https://www.gov.uk/driving-a-minibus website which says :-
"If the minibus is not for ‘hire or reward’

You might be able to drive a minibus with up to 16 passenger seats using your current car driving licence as long as there’s no payment from or on behalf of the passengers (it’s not for ‘hire or reward’)."


It goes on to say :-
"Minibus permit - if you need to charge running costs

You can apply for a minibus permit if you need to charge passengers, as long as:

• the vehicle can carry between 9 and 16 passengers
• you’re driving it for a voluntary organisation that benefits the community - eg an educational, religious or sports organisation
• the minibus service is only available for members of that organisation - not to the general public
• any charges are to cover running costs and are not for profit

Apply for a minibus permit from your local authority, or contact DVSA."


Unless I'm being daft, which isn't unknown, that means, if you receive any payment, it is for hire or reward, if you want to charge running costs, you need a permit.

Yes, you're being daft.