Are degrees in the UK value for money?

happyandcontented

Arklight wrote: »

No, they aren't, and no they don't.


Community Colleges in America teach the equivalent of HNDs for 18+, as well as other technical and vocational adult ed subjects.


FE Colleges in the UK teach up to HND, and mostly cater to 14 - 19 year olds.


Polytechnics taught degree level courses which they designed and taught themselves, but which were accredited by Universities.


As the only difference was that the degrees were mandated at university senate rather than at the polytechnics' own senate, exams are externally moderated and programme delivery is accredited by the QAA, they were eventually given University status.

Sorry, but many dedicated FE Colleges do teach at degree level, they have a relationship with a local university and they run what is called the " top up" degree after the HND. Many FE Colleges have "University Status" conferred upon them due to that link.

Cakeguts

economic wrote: »

a video that is relevant to this discussion. certainly worth a watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BlJ_35ux1o

That is very interesting because what he said is exactly what is happening in the UK now. Lots of people are wasting their learning time by going to university to become nothing and schools are not telling them that they can become nothing by going to university. People go to bottom level universities to study business management but never think of managing a corner shop. Shops are businesses, running a hair salon is a business but hair dressing is thought of as a rubbish job. I agree totally with what he said about plumbers and also many plumbers earn more than many people will ever get from a job after a university degree. There are so many people being sucked into going to university to become nothing.

economic

Do people in school pre university get taught about different styles of politics/economic structures? eg capitalism, communism, socialism etc?

if not why not? maybe if you do economics alevel you do. but why isnt it more widespread? if people can vote in this country from 16 years, why shouldn't they be taught this? i myself had no idea about what even right or left wing poltiics was and its main differences until 27/28. yet i voted before this age. if it is not taught why should the young without experience be allowed to vote?

maybe we are taught some of this to some extent like in history about WW1/2, collapse of soviet union. but what about socialism and capitalism? maybe because we are currently in some combination of capitalism and socialism in the western world and its not actual history (yet).

economic

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/11/28/bath-university-vice-chancellor-quits-amid-pay-row-will-enjoy/

funded by student loans i.e. the taxpayer. what would her salary have been if the education market was a free market and tuition fees reflected actual quality through free market demand?

zagubov

The polytechnics didn't offer degrees validated by university (although University Colleges did). A central agency called the CNAA validated poly degrees. The polys were offered university status in 1992 and the right to award their own degrees.

SingleSue

economic wrote: »

Do people in school pre university get taught about different styles of politics/economic structures? eg capitalism, communism, socialism etc?

if not why not? maybe if you do economics alevel you do. but why isnt it more widespread? if people can vote in this country from 16 years, why shouldn't they be taught this? i myself had no idea about what even right or left wing poltiics was and its main differences until 27/28. yet i voted before this age. if it is not taught why should the young without experience be allowed to vote?

maybe we are taught some of this to some extent like in history about WW1/2, collapse of soviet union. but what about socialism and capitalism? maybe because we are currently in some combination of capitalism and socialism in the western world and its not actual history (yet).

Youngest did his own research (his specialist area/hobby is political history though not his degree subject). He's spent many many hours doing research and writing papers on it....and has also spent many an hour boring all his friends with it :rotfl:

I think eldest got some of it from school due to enjoying taking part in debates and partly from his own research.

Middle son is still trying to get a handle on it, whether they taught him about it I will never know.

Gymbob

Wow.

This just makes students like myself depressed.. wondering if it's all worth it. Especially when you see people earning that sort of money who have had a free education.

The whole plan 2 system is a joke. Getting charged interest while studying (at peak rate), having a slider rate of interest (basically if you earn more you pay even more interest when working), changing interest rates willy nilly. The whole thing is bent, like most of these fat cat people at the top. Even speaking to the student loans company on a number of occasions the staff think that it's wrong, when is someone with some balls going to stand up in parliament.. there's no one to REPRESENT the people.

Personally I would rather have not gone to University because of the debt, the problem is that to have a 'decent' job these days from a young age you need a degree.. long gone are the days of east end wide boys becoming stockbrokers etc..

The more frustrating thing is that more of these students doing pointless degrees (no offence) know they have no chance of paying it back and that they'll barely even break over the threshold. Therefore the hard workers all through university (who do hard degrees) will then be taxed for life at stupid interest rates to literally pay nothing off the loan and pay back the cost of pointless degrees. All I hear is oh it's scrapped after 30 years... that is not a positive (even from student loans company).

If they want to continue charging why not reduce the annual cost to plan 1, charge to any salary you earn over the taxable limit is paid at 20% (same as tax), have an interest rate that is reasonable (like the first plan) therefore they'll have a higher number of students repaying whilst still retaining interest... but no it'll be all down to greed

Another point is why should the English be funding all of this.. I understand the whole deal that Scotland has with the EU, but most of the funding for Scotland comes from London? So much for equality.

economic

Gymbob wrote: »

Wow.

This just makes students like myself depressed.. wondering if it's all worth it. Especially when you see people earning that sort of money who have had a free education.

The whole plan 2 system is a joke. Getting charged interest while studying (at peak rate), having a slider rate of interest (basically if you earn more you pay even more interest when working), changing interest rates willy nilly. The whole thing is bent, like most of these fat cat people at the top. Even speaking to the student loans company on a number of occasions the staff think that it's wrong, when is someone with some balls going to stand up in parliament.. there's no one to REPRESENT the people.

Personally I would rather have not gone to University because of the debt, the problem is that to have a 'decent' job these days from a young age you need a degree.. long gone are the days of east end wide boys becoming stockbrokers etc..

The more frustrating thing is that more of these students doing pointless degrees (no offence) know they have no chance of paying it back and that they'll barely even break over the threshold. Therefore the hard workers all through university (who do hard degrees) will then be taxed for life at stupid interest rates to literally pay nothing off the loan and pay back the cost of pointless degrees. All I hear is oh it's scrapped after 30 years... that is not a positive (even from student loans company).

If they want to continue charging why not reduce the annual cost to plan 1, charge to any salary you earn over the taxable limit is paid at 20% (same as tax), have an interest rate that is reasonable (like the first plan) therefore they'll have a higher number of students repaying whilst still retaining interest... but no it'll be all down to greed

Another point is why should the English be funding all of this.. I understand the whole deal that Scotland has with the EU, but most of the funding for Scotland comes from London? So much for equality.

the problem is the availibility of credit (student loans) has distorted the marketplace for higher education. you now have pointless degrees at so many university and heads of these universities paid 100s of thousands. you are only a consumer to the universities. they do not care about you and your future prospects. if you start thinking of education as an investment, providing you are true to yourself and see the full facts you will see most degrees are a poor investment. its an even more poorer investment for the taxpayer.

bugslet

Cakeguts wrote: »

That is very interesting because what he said is exactly what is happening in the UK now. Lots of people are wasting their learning time by going to university to become nothing and schools are not telling them that they can become nothing by going to university. People go to bottom level universities to study business management but never think of managing a corner shop. Shops are businesses, running a hair salon is a business but hair dressing is thought of as a rubbish job. I agree totally with what he said about plumbers and also many plumbers earn more than many people will ever get from a job after a university degree. There are so many people being sucked into going to university to become nothing.

I only have A levels and yet I manage to run a business, decent profit, staff retention high, content customers - business has a lot to do with sense really, certainly I've never felt the lack of a degree.

Yes, pay for a practical course at far less than a rubbish uni charges and earn decent money a lot quicker. My lads are on 40-42k as truck drivers, fair enough it's long hours, but our work is pretty easy. They won't ever be anything but truck drivers, but they also aren't wondering why they only earn 20k with their 2.2 in psychology.

Gymbob

economic wrote: »

the problem is the availibility of credit (student loans) has distorted the marketplace for higher education. you now have pointless degrees at so many university and heads of these universities paid 100s of thousands. you are only a consumer to the universities. they do not care about you and your future prospects. if you start thinking of education as an investment, providing you are true to yourself and see the full facts you will see most degrees are a poor investment. its an even more poorer investment for the taxpayer.

Definitely agree with this, in terms of myself.. originally I wanted to be a geophysicist in the Oil and Gas industry, :rotfl: I did a Geoscience degree with foundation year (as I had a btec in mechanical and electrical engineering and only did AS)... As the oil price declined so did any opportunity.. I worked as a lead recruitment consultant for geoscience disciplines after my degree. Then made the decision to return to study to do an MSc in Mining Engineering seeming as though most energy sources seem to be going the battery route. All I can say is I hope it pays off this time.. I've paid to do this year to stop a further post grad loan..

I don't know if I should of taken this route or what really but when I finished school in 2007/2008 there were literally no opportunities for apprenticeships either.. the government have helped that scheme a lot over the years, il give them that. That doesn't take away my ridiculous amount of debt though :rotfl: which currently equates to £3,660 in interest a year... even now whilst I'm a student again..

Scrap plan 2.. to put this into perspective .. as I said I have an interest added of £3,660 per year. For the people who do media, photography, environmental etc (no offence) you aren't going to be earning 50-60k+ as a grad...

If you were to earn £50,000.. I'd be charged 9% of everything over £21,000 (think this may have just gone up to £25,000)

This equates to £2,610pa ... so basically with me paying that I'd still be getting £1,050 added to my debt each year... it's stupid..

This is where they get it back.. with people earning £100k salaries.. I'd pay 79,000 at 9% = £7,110. Even if you were to earn that as a grad, which isn't going to happen it would take near to 18 years to pay back (with the amount what it is now) meaning you pay back £128,000 (basically 3 times what I originally borrowed)...

Thereby - this encourages - if you work hard through uni, you work hard in life, being stressed all the time, you get abused by the system.

If you do a bs degree and float around in life, you never pay anything back.

Great encouragement.

With regards to the above I did a back up as well, have all HGV licences and CPC �� Fancy giving me a job if this doesn't work out? ��