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Are degrees in the UK value for money?
Comments
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chucknorris wrote: »There are 65 students on my module, and about 95% on average attend each lecture.
With respect I think I know a lot more about this than you, I've been doing it for 7 years now, and I know that I have improved each year.
Don't take it personally you could be the best lecturer in the whole world but even then your competition would be the best lecture you ever gave in your whole life recorded and played back on video vs the average lecture you give. Surely the best lecture you ever gave recorded and played back on video is better than the same lecture you might have to give while maybe not in a good mood and with a cold and a headache. The student can also play back the lecture, or pause it if they dont understand a bit and go read a book or research on the internet and then come back to the lecture. None of that is possible in a live lecture. Or even more basic things like a student might come in drunk and sleepy as they were out and up until 4am and now they are in a 9am lecture.
Anyway there is no more to be said here, the system is as it is and its momentum is large enough that no government is going to change it much at all. I just wish the 17 year olds were given more options to use that university funding for other things and then a more free market could decide if the kids/parents though university education was of value or not to them.0 -
Surely the best lecture you ever gave recorded and played back on video is better than the same lecture you might have to give while maybe not in a good mood and with a cold and a headache.
It isn't just about the delivery of the lecture, it is also about the interaction that takes place during the session. Because it isn't so much about me, my understanding of the subject will not vary, but the student's understanding will, so it is more about them, than me.
Anyway, I am going out for a run now, the first one in about 7 weeks since I suffered an achilles heel injury.Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one birdThe only time Chuck Norris was wrong was when he thought he had made a mistakeChuck Norris puts the "laughter" in "manslaughter".I've started running again, after several injuries had forced me to stop0 -
Try hiring A-Level students with a good grade in mathematics and see how it goes with them
To become a chartered accountant you have to be a graduate. This keeps the number of accountants low and thus fees high. It's a racket like black cabs. In neither case do you need a degree to do the Knowledge, it's just a barrier to entry.with universities it appears as sometimes a first in one is worth less than a third at another.
Oh yes.
Someone who goes to Cambridge and gets a third is bottom of the A set. Someone who goes to Reading and gets a First is top of the D set. Who would you rather hire, someone from the A set or someone from the D set?
Broadly speaking any degree with "-- Studies" tacked on the end is not in a proper subject. If it were it wouldn't be necessary to clarify that it is "--Studies".0 -
University education is poor value and inefficient
I think 90%+ of my university graduate friends say the same
If you want to learn a particular subject there is nothing faster or more efficent than reading a book or at least that waa the case in my day. Actually nowadays there are fantastic online lectures and tutorials many times better than a lecture from a bored 3rd rate teacher.
Well, not many people could study in distance learning mode.
Many subjects are extremely difficult to study online. Few subjects are even almost impossible to study it online.
Could you become a heart surgeon, eye surgeon by studying online materials. You will end up in jail.
The subject like engineering, science have laboratory and students will be guided during the laboratory session. Are you be able to get this online ??
Keep in mind in traditional college, you are supervised, guided, given tutorial and then assessed, examined. Everybody could claim they understand the subject but unless you have been assessed or examined by people, with superior knowledge the claim is absurd.
The exception is if you belong to the extreme individual who win a very prestigious prize / award such as a Nobel price. But how many people belongs to this groups (if any exist) without studying at the university ??.Universities are primarily just day care for kidults. Really expensive and even poor at doing day care as very few kids actually go to the lectures.
If this was true than not many people will study at the universities.
From the link you provided, the students who get accepted at MIT are well known to belong to very bright youngsters. Do you think these youngsters are too naive study and pay tuition of $45,016 pa at MIT if they could replace this by learning it from free online materials they could get from you tube ??The vast majority of jobs even technical jobs don't require a degree. Someone with a decent IQ and a few hours research can do most things.
Again not true, nowadays you can not become a qualified doctor, dentist, chartered engineer, chartered accountant for instance without studying at the higher education institutions.No need to make them jump through 3-4 years and £50k of debt.
It is called student loan but vast majority of people do not pay their student loan back. The repayment amount is very small compared to the graduate salary who are getting a graduate jobs, not working in the areas which do not need degree at all.
MSE even propose this student loan to be named as tax on graduate.I'd say give the kids £30k each when they hit 18. Able to use it to buy a house or buy a university education or keep of in a pension. With choice I think less than 20% of kids would go to university. The other 80% would probably think of better value buying a house worj the money or putting it into a pension.
Keep in mind in general UK student pay their tuition fee and maybe maintenance from student loan paid by the UK taxpayers and not from their parents. So your £30k is irrelevant as you will still have the money irrespective whether they go or not go to university.
It seems to me the majority of people who are moaning that universities degrees are not worthy coming from the people who learnt it in a hard way or might be one of their family member learning it in that way. They got university degrees but still working the areas which do not need uni degrees at all.
But the reason for that are well known, they studied in the areas which are not well valued by the employers, do not have a good job prospects.
There are already a lot of statistics available, why not use it when choosing what subject to study at uni. Do not go to university just because you like it, you fancy it, it is easy to pass, you will need a much stronger reason than that. Otherwise you are gambling your life. You might still get the money you would have earned by simply not study at the university. But you will never get back the years you had wasted study at uni.
Worse you or your children might end up like this UK well known !!!!!!-star
'I've got a degree but now I have sex on film with strangers'"
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/10-hour-!!!!!!-star-ive-85132220 -
That is silly the human brain is capable of self learning almost all humans are.
What about mentally !!!!!!, severely disable people. Are they able to comprehend relativity theory ???.
You provide the link online lecture from MIT. In fact if you search in you tube MIT provide huge amounts of online lectures recorded directly from the classroom. Several universities in the US are doing the same things.
The students who get accepted at MIT are well known to belong to the brightest youngsters. Do you think these youngsters are too naive to study and pay tuition of $45,016 pa at MIT if they believe they could replace this by learning it from free online materials they could get from MIT online lecture series on you tube ??
Do you ever believe that the professors, the management at MIT which are well known among the brightest people on earth and other well known universities will put their lecture series recorded directly from the classroom if they believe doing this, the university will collapse because people will not go to University ?. The fact is that MIT and other universities have put their online lecture series for years yet they are still flooded by bright youngsters who wanted to study there.0 -
westernpromise wrote: »To become a chartered accountant you have to be a graduate. This keeps the number of accountants low and thus fees high. It's a racket like black cabs. In neither case do you need a degree to do the Knowledge, it's just a barrier to entry.
Complete rubbish. There are non graduate routes into the main "chartered" accountancy bodies.
Not only that, but there are no regulations at all as to who can call themselves an accountant nor start their own accountancy practice. It's not regulated like surveyors, solicitors, architects, etc. It's about the only "profession" where there are no barriers to entry at all!
It's just about the only profession where fees vary enormously - you can get quotes of just a few hundred right through to a few thousand for exactly the same work, depending upon whether you want qualified or not, and on which body you want a member of. Even the same level of qualifications give wildly varied fees according to size of firm, location, etc.
As a result of huge numbers of unqualified/unregulated people trading as "accountants", fees are falling rapidly and are, on average, less today than they were 10 years ago.0 -
westernpromise wrote: »Someone who goes to Cambridge and gets a third is bottom of the A set. Someone who goes to Reading and gets a First is top of the D set. Who would you rather hire, someone from the A set or someone from the D set?
What like Lavinia Woodward who studies medicine at Oxford, who got smashed on a load of class A and put a knife through her boyfriend / latest shags leg? How many of the most successful businessmen / entrepreneurs went to / finished uni, let alone at a top estabilishment? I'd take the Reading doctor over that crazy bint any day (yes I know Reading doesn't do medicine). Plenty of lazy tools with rich parents at Oxbridge - I went out with one for a year.0 -
Complete rubbish. There are non graduate routes into the main "chartered" accountancy bodies.
Not only that, but there are no regulations at all as to who can call themselves an accountant nor start their own accountancy practice. It's not regulated like surveyors, solicitors, architects, etc. It's about the only "profession" where there are no barriers to entry at all!
It's just about the only profession where fees vary enormously - you can get quotes of just a few hundred right through to a few thousand for exactly the same work, depending upon whether you want qualified or not, and on which body you want a member of. Even the same level of qualifications give wildly varied fees according to size of firm, location, etc.
As a result of huge numbers of unqualified/unregulated people trading as "accountants", fees are falling rapidly and are, on average, less today than they were 10 years ago.
I worked at one of the (then) big five some 15 years ago, and they just stated taken entrants with just A-levels, realizing there were many people who didn't want to do a degree, but were academically gifted nonetheless. I believe they did fairly mundane stuff for the first two years, before entering the same scheme as the graduates."Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance" - Confucius0 -
I worked at one of the (then) big five some 15 years ago, and they just stated taken entrants with just A-levels, realizing there were many people who didn't want to do a degree, but were academically gifted nonetheless. I believe they did fairly mundane stuff for the first two years, before entering the same scheme as the graduates.
Many consultants, contractors are recruiting bright A-levels as an apprentice or lower lever entry train them on the job and send them to a part time course at a university to get a degree.
Good for both apprentice and the company. The apprentice earn money, get work experience and their tuition is paid by the company.
The company hire a person with lower level entry which mean lower salary.0 -
What about mentally !!!!!!, severely disable people. Are they able to study relativity theory ???.
You provide the link online lecture from MIT. In fact if you search in you tube MIT provide huge amounts of online lectures recorded directly from the classroom. Several universities in the US are doing the same things.
The students who get accepted at MIT are well known to belong to the brightest youngsters. Do you think these youngsters are too naive to study and pay tuition of $45,016 pa at MIT if they believe they could replace this by learning it from free online materials they could get from MIT online lecture series on you tube ??
Do you ever believe that the professors, the management at MIT which are well known among the brightest people on earth and other well known universities will put their lecture series recorded directly from the classroom if they believe doing this, the university will collapse because people will not go to University ?. The fact is that MIT and other universities have put their online lecture series for years yet they are still flooded by bright youngsters who wanted to study there.
Sure MIT exists and will always exist there will be a group of people for who the education or rather the institutions name is worth every penny in the same way that about 8% of kids go to public school that costs their parents £100k over 13 years so £30k at university is worthwhile for them almost irrespective of the outcome. MIT probably wouldn't ever consider offering degrees for people who just turn up and pass their exams that is the missing bit.
I would say a good idea in the UK is if any university wants even a single penny of government grants and money they should be forced to allow anyone from the UK to sit their exams and be awarded their degrees the only cost should be a small marking fee like £50 a paper. That way anyone could get the same degree for about £3000 rather than £30,0000
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