Are degrees in the UK value for money?

Jackieboy

zagubov wrote: »

Well most of them are. Which is more than can be said for the Colleges of Advanced Technology, the Polytechnics and the Colleges and Institutes of Higher Education which were all eventually uplifted into the university sector.

One of the worst things we did was to turn the polys etc into second rate (often) universities!

mark55man

antrobus wrote: »

It's up to the supplier to decide on the price to charge for the product. It's up to the buyer to decide whether or not the product is worth the price. That's how markets are supposed to work.:)

...

The problem is that university courses don't operate as a proper market. People fund a university course by taking out student loans, which I think you don't start repaying until you earn £21k a year, or something like that. So you can spend three years studying drama, dance, and cinematics, whilst having fun being creative and partying whatever, safe in the knowledge that you probably won't ever earn enough to repay the flippin loans.

Exactly right. The government set a maximum rate, and then was apparently surprised when everyone charged it. Students have no way of knowing if its good value or not. I think what £9000 represents is the most that can be charged without scaring everyone off. I don't think there is any transparency and there is no come back if the course (even at a good university) is not well taught

My kids are split 2 and 2 - two at or going to Uni and two not. I'll report back in 15 years as to which was the better choice, coz I don't know

I have heard apocryphal stories of universities simply not knowing what to do with all the money coming in. which isnt right either

zagubov

Jackieboy wrote: »

One of the worst things we did was to turn the polys etc into second rate (often) universities!

There was nothing wrong with the Polys. They were cracking institutions. We just needed a new supply of universities quickly on the cheap and forced them to deform themselves to take on that role.

Jackieboy

vivatifosi wrote: »

I agree with zag, the OU is a missed opportunity. It has such great scalability options but I bet that numbers have dropped right off since the prices sky rocketed.

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/open-university-posts-ps7m-loss-student-numbers-slump#

kabayiri

Having worked on the Learn Direct systems I think we are over-speccing jobs. It's little wonder that potential students feel they need to be over qualified.

I remember listening in on a caller wishing to become a Nanny. The advice coming back to her from the adviser was of 2 qualifications matching the brief, both post-graduate !!

Can anyone explain why a nanny has to be a post-grad?

A degree is becoming seen as the default option, in a sort of hit n hope fashion.

It's interesting someone mentioned Keele. We are considering Keele for dd. I challenged one of the lecturers on the 'market value' of the course, and she bluffed and blustered her way through an answer. It lacked conviction.

kabayiri

Why are the costs of somewhere like University of Maastricht so much cheaper?

The daughter of a governer at a local school pays something like £3K a term to study European law.

Are they more efficient or something?

Jackieboy

kabayiri wrote: »

Having worked on the Learn Direct systems I think we are over-speccing jobs. It's little wonder that potential students feel they need to be over qualified.

I remember listening in on a caller wishing to become a Nanny. The advice coming back to her from the adviser was of 2 qualifications matching the brief, both post-graduate !!

Can anyone explain why a nanny has to be a post-grad?

A degree is becoming seen as the default option, in a sort of hit n hope fashion.

It's interesting someone mentioned Keele. We are considering Keele for dd. I challenged one of the lecturers on the 'market value' of the course, and she bluffed and blustered her way through an answer. It lacked conviction.

Seriously?:eek::eek:

zagubov

Jackieboy wrote: »

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/open-university-posts-ps7m-loss-student-numbers-slump#

This was very much a stellar institution with huge capacity to expand HE provision affordably. But like all good ideas, we've made the wrong choice, as was the fashion at the time.

Having said that, the one proviso about distance learning is there needs to be a minimum time of residential teaching/learning. Many studies have shown that national service has a pivotal role in social cohesion and integration. We don't have that now but university attendance is cross-country and fulfils the same role to some extent. The government promotes it as if were as good, but that's only because it massages the unemployment stats.

Countries with greater diversity have deficits in social trust, but bringing social subdivisions and minorities together have the ability to combat that as long as everybody has the ability to mix for a minimal time. Perhaps we need a system where we expand distance learning but with the occasional term or two of residential study to heal social divisions. Don't ask me which party will have the foresight and wisdom to bring this about.

kabayiri wrote: »

Having worked on the Learn Direct systems I think we are over-speccing jobs. It's little wonder that potential students feel they need to be over qualified.

I remember listening in on a caller wishing to become a Nanny. The advice coming back to her from the adviser was of 2 qualifications matching the brief, both post-graduate !!

Can anyone explain why a nanny has to be a post-grad?

A degree is becoming seen as the default option, in a sort of hit n hope fashion.

It's interesting someone mentioned Keele. We are considering Keele for dd. I challenged one of the lecturers on the 'market value' of the course, and she bluffed and blustered her way through an answer. It lacked conviction.

Keele has a niche as a provider of double-subject degrees where you can specialise in two subjects to honours level. Mind you, now they've a medical school their reputation will only rise, not fall.

DigForVictory

Keele's market value always lies with the student, so if she can sell herself, whichever uni she goes to will a benefit.

Keele's campus setup, college-style pastoral care & low-ish numbers mean it's a much more interesting place to study than some mid city centre uni, from a finding digs & regular meals & where the blinking lectures are.
That said, if the young lady doesn't care for cherry blossom & nurtured wild spaces, doesn't want a country walk minutes from her room or lecture hall & doesn't want to have to defend her Uni from bemused friends family & potential employers "Hardly Russell, is it?" then she may be better served by a more ruthless environment.

Jackieboy

zagubov wrote: »

This was very much a stellar institution with huge capacity to expand HE provision affordably. But like all good ideas, we've made the wrong choice, as was the fashion at the time.

Having said that, the one proviso about distance learning is there needs to be a minimum time of residential teaching/learning. Many studies have shown that national service has a pivotal role in social cohesion and integration. We don't have that now but university attendance is cross-country and fulfils the same role to some extent. The government promotes it as if were as good, but that's only because it massages the unemployment stats.

Countries with greater diversity have deficits in social trust, but bringing social subdivisions and minorities together have the ability to combat that as long as everybody has the ability to mix for a minimal time. Perhaps we need a system where we expand distance learning but with the occasional term or two of residential study to heal social divisions. Don't ask me which party will have the foresight and wisdom to bring this about.


Keele has a niche as a provider of double-subject degrees where you can specialise in two subjects to honours level. Mind you, now they've a medical school their reputation will only rise, not fall.

Which is something the OU has moved away from, unfortunately.