Are degrees in the UK value for money?

chucknorris

sann420 wrote: »

I believe education is a basic human right.

Its an absolute travesty that a rich country like the UK which has money to waste on random wars and Nuke creation/maintenance is not able to offer tuition fee free education to its young.

If university places were limited to the most able students, I would agree with you, but currently it is almost as if every man and his dog wants go to university. The lack of ability of some of the students is sometimes quite shocking, some of them really shouldn't be there, I don't blame them personally, it is just the way the trend has gone.

kabayiri

chucknorris wrote: »

If university places were limited to the most able students, I would agree with you, but currently it is almost as if every man and his dog wants go to university. The lack of ability of some of the students is sometimes quite shocking, some of them really shouldn't be there, I don't blame them personally, it is just the way the trend has gone.

It's a volume product now I suspect. It's not about individual students.

To create a large scale education industry capable of drawing in lucrative foreign student business you first need the underlying capacity.

If a future event caused numbers to drop off considerably you would have to worry about the sustainability.

If you visit some of the average universities you can't fail to notice the new accommodation blocks being developed. Some are like hotels now. A far cry from the Young Ones

gfplux

kabayiri wrote: »

Why are the costs of somewhere like University of Maastricht so much cheaper?

The daughter of a governer at a local school pays something like £3K a term to study European law.

Are they more efficient or something?

As I understood it the Reason prices have risen dramatically in the U.K. was due to a reduction in direct Government funding that was then replaced by the direct contribution from the student.
I have heard talk that the maximum Universities can charge might be raised to £12000.

The funding model in France, Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg, Austria and Switzerland must be very different to Britain.
I live in Luxembourg and am therefore vaguely familiar with the cost of degree courses in these countries as many Luxembourgers study there. With the exception of Medicine and Dentistry annual fees in these countries are +/- €500 per year. A masters, usually two years costs just a little more.

gfplux

sann420 wrote: »

I believe education is a basic human right.

Its an absolute travesty that a rich country like the UK which has money to waste on random wars and Nuke creation/maintenance is not able to offer tuition fee free education to its young.

If you are a student looking to start uni I would strongly suggest you look into a German or a Nordic institution where they don't charge any tuition fee even if it means you would have to learn a foreign language.

Actually many European Universities have courses in English and will cost +/- €500 per year. With living costs not dissimilar it can be a very good option for an English student.

I often ask myself why such a rich country like Britain never seems to have any money. Where does it all go?

zagubov

gfplux wrote: »

I often ask myself why such a rich country like Britain never seems to have any money. Where does it all go?

Tax breaks for people too rich to need them, world-ending weapons systems so dangerous only a maniac would use them (if they actually worked), bailing out colossal financial concerns so obsessed with profit they've got no judgement or sense, and such like.

westernpromise

The biggest item is pensions

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/government_expenditure.html

BobQ

chucknorris wrote: »

If university places were limited to the most able students, I would agree with you, but currently it is almost as if every man and his dog wants go to university. The lack of ability of some of the students is sometimes quite shocking, some of them really shouldn't be there, I don't blame them personally, it is just the way the trend has gone.

Could not agree more.

The fees charged have little to do with the cost of the tuition provided and are more to do with the cost of running universities in the broader sense. The fees are just a tax and could easily go up all the time there are people prepared to pay.

Having overly restrictive selection criteria like we had when I was at university in the 1970s was not always fair either. Firstly, some people were denied access because the admission standard was arbitrary and for a variety of reasons they just missed out even though they were capable of getting a degree. Second, some people missed out due to elitist views of those who made the decisions in marginal cases (sometimes favouring certain schools etc). So it was right to relax the selection criteria so that those who had the ability could get on a degree course. But it simply went too far and standards have dropped. In effect, the standards have been reduced to fund expansion in tertiary education.

We need to return to proper selection criteria. We also need to discriminate in favour of having lower fees for the degrees that the nation needs. In my view the cost of the fees to study medicine should be much lower because we need doctors. Equally, we should charge an economic price for the courses that people choose to study that we do not have a shortage of graduates in.

CLAPTON

zagubov wrote: »

Tax breaks for people too rich to need them, world-ending weapons systems so dangerous only a maniac would use them (if they actually worked), bailing out colossal financial concerns so obsessed with profit they've got no judgement or sense, and such like.

none of the EU countries provide a NHS which is free at the point of delivery
many have higher tax rates which discourage productive industry and so have higher unemployment


but facts and logic have no role with people whose only love is to show contempt and hate for the people of the UK

zagubov

BobQ wrote: »

We need to return to proper selection criteria. We also need to discriminate in favour of having lower fees for the degrees that the nation needs. In my view the cost of the fees to study medicine should be much lower because we need doctors. Equally, we should charge an economic price for the courses that people choose to study that we do not have a shortage of graduates in.

Pretty much agree with a lot of this. We're not dealing with the HE progression system in a mature way, as our European neighbours would probably agree.

silvercar

BobQ wrote: »

We need to return to proper selection criteria. We also need to discriminate in favour of having lower fees for the degrees that the nation needs. In my view the cost of the fees to study medicine should be much lower because we need doctors. Equally, we should charge an economic price for the courses that people choose to study that we do not have a shortage of graduates in.

From an economic perspective, medicine is still a widely oversubscribed course with the hardest entry requirements. If demand is so high, why do we need to lower fees?

From a social perspective, lowering the fees may attract people due to the low fees rather than the vocation.

From a VFM viewpoint, its a bargain compared with paying the same level for media studies.