Compulsory Smart Meters.

stewie_griffin

baldelectrician wrote: »

I got my smart meter taken out and a dumb meter installed


The smart meters have a pre-pay and post-pay capability.


In other words if you fail to pay your bill / direct debt they no longer have to get a court warrant to put in a pre-pay meter - all they have to do is push a button and you are on pre-pay


They will write to you etc but you can be put on pre-pay if you fail to keep direct debit or other payment arrangements.

I know that remote switching from credit to prepayment is theoretically possible but as far as I know no suppliers do this at the moment.

baldelectrician wrote: »

They also have anti-tamper things built in that send a signal if the meter has been touched / cover removed / supply disconnected

I don't understand why this is a bad thing???

lstar337

Cardew wrote: »

I suspect the he is in North America? - They quoted Toronto Hydro who have 'time of use' tariffs. See:

http://www.torontohydro.com/sites/electricsystem/residential/rates/Pages/resirates.aspx

I didn't know specific TOU tariffs had been implemented anywhere, but yes that would account for it.

Still unrelated to smart meters here though as no specific TOU tariffs exist yet, and a smart meter is just a piece of hardware that 'could' allow them.

I presume the people of Toronto could move away from a TOU tariff if they wished?

lstar337

baldelectrician wrote: »

In other words if you fail to pay your bill / direct debt they no longer have to get a court warrant to put in a pre-pay meter - all they have to do is push a button and you are on pre-pay

This is good, unless you are a thief.

It also puts an end to the wasted time for engineers to swap meters from credit/prepay/E7/standard.

baldelectrician wrote: »

They also have anti-tamper things built in that send a signal if the meter has been touched / cover removed / supply disconnected

Again, all good unless you are a thief.

lstar337

DavidP24 wrote: »

The ONLY people who really benefit will be the energy companies as it will move consumers to monthly bills.

They will benefit rented properties where they can be switched between credit (for honest users) and prepay (for people who like to rent and ditch, or who prefer prepay for budgeting reasons).

DavidP24 wrote: »

Such a huge waste of money, but nobody will admit it, of course the sycophants love it.

I wouldn't call it an entire waste of money, however the way it is being handled is a giant waste of money!

DavidP24 wrote: »

Imagine if that money was given as a deduction on our bills or the dreaded standing charge was just banned.

That's a crazy idea. The standing charge has a purpose.

Cardew

lstar337 wrote: »

I didn't know specific TOU tariffs had been implemented anywhere, but yes that would account for it.

Still unrelated to smart meters here though as no specific TOU tariffs exist yet, and a smart meter is just a piece of hardware that 'could' allow them.

I presume the people of Toronto could move away from a TOU tariff if they wished?

Agreed not of relevance in UK - YET!!

If you look at the link it does give the rates for a non- TOU tariff. However like the USA, there are a host of additional charges - per kWh or by month - for distribution and taxes.

EachPenny

lstar337 wrote: »

Still unrelated to smart meters here though as no specific TOU tariffs exist yet, and a smart meter is just a piece of hardware that 'could' allow them

Putting on my tin hat and preparing for the incoming flak.... but aren't E7 and E10 (etc) simple forms of TOU tariffs? Not as advanced as smart meters have the potential to deliver, but never the less, charging different rates at different times of day.

Somewhat ironic that many smart meters seem incompatible with E7 and have missing features like being able to display both high and low meter readings on the IHD.

lstar337

EachPenny wrote: »

Putting on my tin hat and preparing for the incoming flak.... but aren't E7 and E10 (etc) simple forms of TOU tariffs?

They are indeed. I made the assumption that we were discussing much more advanced TOU, but you are quite correct in what you say.

lstar337

DavidP24 wrote: »

Crazy? To save most of the country money?

The standing charge pays for the upkeep of the distribution network.

It would be crazy to stop maintaining it, therefore crazy to scrap the standing charge. You are welcome to switch to a no standing charge tariff though if you wish to. Ebico do one, along with other suppliers.

DavidP24 wrote: »

Only thing crazy is to assume that anyone who rents is not honest.

Very true. I am a renter and would take offence at such a statement. It is true however that there exists a type of person who moves from property to property maxing out credit meters and never paying a penny for their usage. Smart meters that can switch from credit to prepay over the air will put a stop to such behaviour.

DavidP24 wrote: »

The standing charge serves NO PURPOSE, just a way to RIP OFF consumer.

You are wrong about that.

DavidP24 wrote: »

They make the price up as they go along, meters cost pennies on Alibaba, companies have faulty equipment for 7 years but screw customers for standing charge.

And how much do you think all the cables that crisscross the country cost? Or all the pylons large and small? Or all the transformers? Or all the land it all sits on? Or all the way-leave payments? Or all the people who are employed to monitor and maintain it? Or all the meter readers? OR.....The list goes on.

The suppliers are charged by national grid, and those charges are passed on to the customer as standing charges.

Cardew

DavidP24 wrote: »

These are commercial companies making billions, they can pay for the infrastructure out of the obscene profits they make from gambling.

Is all profit 'obscene'?

The supermarkets profits dwarf that of the Energy companies.

EachPenny

lstar337 wrote: »

They are indeed. I made the assumption that we were discussing much more advanced TOU, but you are quite correct in what you say.

I think if I were in charge of the smart meter programme strategy for a day I would get the utility companies to start promoting an Economy7 like tariff available through smart meters, and make sure it is one of the cheaper deals available. Getting the meters installed would be a lot easier if more people were actively asking for them, provided the companies can keep up with demand.

Customers need a bigger jucier financial worm, rather than just a promise of not needing to read their own meter.

Although my first decision as smart meter programme strategy manager should probably be to put the entire programme on hold until Smets2 meters are available.