Advice for negotiating with landlord

fizz190

Hi all,

We're in a bit of a tricky situation and need some advice.

In August 2016 we signed a new 12 month AST agreement on our flat (we've been here since Sept 2014). The contract has a 6 month break clause with 2 months notice required, so technically the earliest we can leave is April 2017. There is a specific clause in the contract though that says we only have to continue to pay rent until the property is re-let.

We've been living with a pretty serious damp problem in the flat for over a year. This has caused the electrics to blow twice, and my husband and I have both had to throw away clothes because of mould. The last time the electrics blew (last summer) the electrician couldn't completely fix the issue and we have since had a number of plug sockets that we can't use. The landlord promised to fix this, but never did. They also mentioned something about needing to damp proof the whole flat but they have never mentioned it again. I've since realised from looking at old emails that we mentioned the damp when we first viewed the flat and the landlord claimed that it had recently been damp proofed - this was obviously a lie!!

My husband and I, being pretty laid back, had not pursued the issue, but then I discovered I was pregnant and we decided that this was not a situation we could tolerate any longer.

We started to look at houses and found one much quicker than expected - the house is empty and the new landlord wants us in asap. We decided we couldn't let this house go so we've agreed to take it on from early Feb. We let our current landlord know straight away (giving 1 month's notice), acknowledging that the contract means that we need to keep paying rent until they find a new tenant. We were willing to pay an overlap in rent as we know the rental market in our area is booming and it shouldn't take long to find a new tenant.

Since then our current landlord is dragging his heels and refusing to communicate with us at all. We're getting really anxious that he's just going to drag it out to make us keep paying until April.

We've since realised that we have never received confirmation of a deposit protection scheme from when we took the flat. I have checked 2 of the 3 scheme websites (the 3rd won't let me search without a reference) and can't find a record. It's possible they have registered with the third scheme but I wouldn't be surprised if they hadn't - this gives us even more reason to think that the landlord is a bit 'dodgy', but could potentially give us some leverage?

I'd be really interested to hear people's views on how to proceed here. We want to do things as fairly and amicably as possible - but we obviously don't want to pay more out than we need to!

Many thanks!

Arleen

If LL didn't put your deposit into protection scheme he is in trouble - have a look https://www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection/if-your-landlord-doesnt-protect-your-deposit and give the 3 deposits a call tomorrow, see if they can find it for you. But that doesn't excuse you from the rental agreement.

But the dampness and mould to the point that electric installation gives out and you have to throw away clothes? In name of bowl of pasta, those are not conditions anyone should be living in. I mean for electricity to give in to damp and mould it would take not only very severe case but also seriously faulty and dangerous installation. And shelter agrees (https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/health_and_safety_standards_for_rented_homes_hhsrs) so you may mention to your LL that you are thinking of calling council about those issues to get his attention.

G_M

fizz190 wrote: »

In August 2016 we signed a new 12 month AST agreement on our flat (we've been here since Sept 2014). The contract has a 6 month break clause with 2 months notice required, so technically the earliest we can leave is April 2017. There is a specific clause in the contract though that says we only have to continue to pay rent until the property is re-let.

If you want decent advice, please quote both clauses in full.

fizz190

G_M wrote: »

If you want decent advice, please quote both clauses in full.

If the Tenant vacates the Premises during the Term apart from according to any agreed break clause which is included within the Agreement, the Tenant will remain liable to pay Rent and any other monies payable under this Agreement until the Term expires; or the Premises are re-let whichever is earlier.

Tenants Break Option
It is hereby agreed between the Landlord and the Tenant that at any time on or after 05 April 2017 the Tenancy may be terminated by the Tenant having given to the Landlord or the Landlord's Agent not less than sixty days prior notice in writing thereby the earliest
date for the service of notice is 05 February 2017 and for clarification should service of notice be made for one party of the Tenant such notice will be deemed as being served for both parties jointly and severally.

fizz190

Arleen wrote: »

If LL didn't put your deposit into protection scheme he is in trouble - have a look https://www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection/if-your-landlord-doesnt-protect-your-deposit and give the 3 deposits a call tomorrow, see if they can find it for you. But that doesn't excuse you from the rental agreement.

But the dampness and mould to the point that electric installation gives out and you have to throw away clothes? In name of bowl of pasta, those are not conditions anyone should be living in. I mean for electricity to give in to damp and mould it would take not only very severe case but also seriously faulty and dangerous installation. And shelter agrees (https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/health_and_safety_standards_for_rented_homes_hhsrs) so you may mention to your LL that you are thinking of calling council about those issues to get his attention.

I've now figured out how to check the third scheme and there's no record there either. I'm going to give all three a call today to double check but there's nothing showing online.

I do feel a bit daft for having lived with the damp/mould issue for so long - we're very much the type of tenants who try to make good and mend rather than make a fuss!

Do you think it would be reasonable to flag both of these issues with the LL in the hope that he might see reason and agree to let us out of the contract early?

We're talking 8 weeks rent vs potential compensation of 3 x our deposit (18 weeks rent) and a council inspection.

Or would we be better off paying the extra rent and following up on these issues more formally?

I guess it comes down to doing the right thing for us (which right now would be to walk away without going to court - even if we'd potentially be better off financially if we did) or the right thing in the bigger picture sense (i.e. ensuring the landlord sorts the flat out for the next tenants).

Opinions very welcome!!!

Thanks

Tyler119

fizz190 wrote: »

I've now figured out how to check the third scheme and there's no record there either. I'm going to give all three a call today to double check but there's nothing showing online.

I do feel a bit daft for having lived with the damp/mould issue for so long - we're very much the type of tenants who try to make good and mend rather than make a fuss!

Do you think it would be reasonable to flag both of these issues with the LL in the hope that he might see reason and agree to let us out of the contract early?

We're talking 8 weeks rent vs potential compensation of 3 x our deposit (18 weeks rent) and a council inspection.

Or would we be better off paying the extra rent and following up on these issues more formally?

I guess it comes down to doing the right thing for us (which right now would be to walk away without going to court - even if we'd potentially be better off financially if we did) or the right thing in the bigger picture sense (i.e. ensuring the landlord sorts the flat out for the next tenants).

Opinions very welcome!!!

Thanks

My advice may not be popular with some...but heyho.

Send a letter by recorded mail to the landlord. State what date you will be leaving the property. State that you will pay no further rent after this date. Sate that you want evidence of the deposit being placed in a government registered scheme. State that you want proof that the place was damp proofed before you moved in. If it was then the work that crap and he should claim on any guarantee. Send him an itemised list of goods that you had to dump due to him not fixing the damp (clear that it is probably not a ventilation issue) and cost to replace with equal goods. State that you are contacting the local council to have someone from the environmental department come out and inspect the living conditions. You certainly do not want the next possible tenant dealing with the same issues.

A big one if he has not protected the deposit. He will be liable to pay you between 1 and 3 times the amount of deposit in compensation. It is unlikely he can enforce the contract either as on a reasonable probability basis, he has failed his responsibilities as the landlord in the contract.

If all else fails, leave when you want to and do not leave a forwarding address. Do not take it easy on him either. No one should live in those conditions, specially someone pregnant.

Arleen

While I agree that you should move, please do not make life harder for yourself by doing something silly, like leaving without forwarding address.

Matter with deposit and if you will get any money on it is a good bargaining chip for you. Even if you will go to council now and draw their interest, it will take some time for them to act. Someone else may know, as I have no experience with that, but I imagine days/weeks for inspection. I would instead speak to the LL, and sayto him - give me back my deposit, return pro-rated part of the rent for day X.X ( the date you vacate the property), and I will just plain move. Otherwise, I will have to raise those issues with the council, and on deposit alone, it will cost you hella more than that.

And once you get your money, report those issues to council because landlords like that do not deserve anything else. But do that only once you got your money from him, so you personally don't have to do more than that.

Pixie5740

You don't "technically"* need to remain in the property until 5th April 2017. You can leave any time you want but contractually you are liable for the rent up until at least 5th April 2017.

If your landlord hasn't protected your deposit (WRITE to your LL to confirm this) then yes you could sue him for 1-3 times your deposit. That will be your basis for negotiation.

Forget about trying to use the damp and mould against your LL. From your OP you knew damp was an issue before your tenancy even started but you still chose to live there. Then despite the damp and mould being so bad you signed another contract in August 2016 so it can't have been that much of an issue for you.


*Why have people suddenly started using the word "technically" all the time? Is "technically" the new "basically?"

G_M

fizz190 wrote: »

If the Tenant vacates the Premises during the Term apart from according to any agreed break clause which is included within the Agreement, the Tenant will remain liable to pay Rent and any other monies payable under this Agreement until the Term expires; or the Premises are re-let whichever is earlier.

This clause is pretty redundant. It simply states what the legal position is anyway. If the clause were not there, the same obligations would exist under contract law.

Tenants Break Option
It is hereby agreed between the Landlord and the Tenant that at any time on or after 05 April 2017 the Tenancy may be terminated by the Tenant having given to the Landlord or the Landlord's Agent not less than sixty days prior notice in writing thereby the earliest
date for the service of notice is 05 February 2017 and for clarification should service of notice be made for one party of the Tenant such notice will be deemed as being served for both parties jointly and severally

So you can serve notice under the Break Clause on or before 4th Feb 2017, to terminate the tenancy (60 days later) on 5th April 2017.

fizz190

Thanks for the advice/views so far.

I'm inclined to agree with Pixie on the damp - our complacency on the issue so far muddies the waters and the deposit scheme is a much clearer issue.

I have drafted the following email to the LL:

Thank you for completing our reference - the estate agent has confirmed that has all been completed and we are ready to move forward with the new house.

The contract for our new house begins on 4th February. I would be grateful if you could confirm ASAP that we can be released from our contract at the end of our current rental month, which is 5th February 2017.

On a separate, but related note, I have checked my records and cannot find any record of the tenancy deposit scheme our deposit is registered with. I'd be grateful if you could confirm which scheme you have used? As you probably know, landlords who rent a property to tenants with an assured shorthold tenancy must put their deposit in a government backed tenancy deposit scheme within 30 days of receiving it: https://www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection/overview For our peace of mind we'd like reassurance that our deposit is protected - I have contacted all three of the government schemes and they have found no record of our deposit.

I would appreciate your immediate response to the points above as this is now urgent.

Assuming that he won't be able to respond with details of a deposit scheme, I would then follow up with something along the lines of: you have broken the law - we could take you to court - but we won't if you confirm we can leave on 5th Feb and will return our deposit in full...

Sound ok?

Thank you - I really appreciate all your input!

Guest101

In essence yes, it would seem prudent as if they don't let you move out, you could sue for 1-3 times the deposit and this would cover atleast one of the months of rent owed.