Child left savings account, how do we access it?

shamac

When my FIL died we found a savings book from Halifax bank in his name but with my daughter as a named person on the account. He told us he was saving money for her and had added £5 a week for years for her. It contains about £500 now.

We approached Halifax about 8 years ago to be told that the account forms part of his estate and that only his next of kin could access the account. However, once she was 18 she would be able to access it.

She turned 18 this weekend and went in the bank today to be told that the original advice was correct and that only his next of kin could access the account.

We have tried in vain to find his next of kin (they live abroad) with no luck.

Which Halifax advisor was correct?

PeacefulWaters

What's the title on the account?

Does it show as "in re" or "trustee"?

xylophone

If the account was held as "bare trustee" for your daughter, then it did not form part of her grandfather's estate.

She became entitled to access and control at age 18, but it is possible that the grandfather's successor as Trustee would have had to sign it over.

If it was held in his name but merely "designated" ( ie was money which he was saving but was "earmarked" for her at some point of his choosing), then it did form part of his estate.

What was the account called? This should show on the passbook.


Was the interest on the account paid gross following the submission of an R85 on the child's behalf?

Who was the executor of the grandfather's estate?

bowlhead99

If his grandaughter is named on the account because it is literally her money and he opened the account in his capacity as trustee of a "bare trust" with him as trustee and she as beneficiary... (for example account name is "Shamac FIL as trustee for GD), then from the age of 18 she can demand the trustee hand over the cash to her.

Unfortunately however, until she asks for it and the trustee takes action to transfer the assets into her name, they still legally belong to the trustee, even though the beneficiary can legally demand that the trustee hand it over.

However the practical problem is that the trustee is dead, and if he was the only trustee, his personal representative / next of kin would take over the trusteeship and can then transfer the cash in line with the granddaughters wishes. If the cash is not legally in the name of the granddaughter she can't demand it directly from the bank, because it is not legally hers, and it is not legally the bank's, it is legally the property of the trustee and she is just the beneficial owner of the money (and any interest it earns).

So she can't really avoid chasing down the personal representatives /executor / next of kin of the FIL and asking them to please get the money from the bank (by proving who they are and that they are allowed to handle the FIL's affairs and his duties after his death).

If it was not a formal "bare trust" arrangement but merely a 'designation', the rules would be a bit different but the practical problem is the same. For example if my name is Joe Bloggs and my nephew is Little Jonnie Smith, I might have an account set up, "Joe Bloggs re: LJS", but it is still legally and beneficially my money; and LJS initials are only on the account to help me remember that I'd designated it to be given to him as a present once I thought he was old enough.

In that situation it's not a joint account or trust account and LJS does not legally have a claim over it once I am dead; even though I might have wanted it to go to him, that is not guaranteed to happen, it just depends if I've communicated well with my heirs and executers.

In the situation of an account designation that was not actually a joint account or trust account, the granddaughter does not have a claim (other than a moral one) because it's not her cash either legally or beneficially... In that situation the money both legally and beneficially belongs to the deceased's estate and only the personal representative / executor / next of kin can take over the account and distribute the contents.

So again it would circle around to you having to track down the next of kin to get the funds released.

As it is only a small amount you can try figuratively tugging on the bank staff's heartstrings but may get no joy without the account having clear documentation about whose it is and what it is that gives them the legal right of access. Basically, an account dormant for over 8 years and with no adult signature is not going to be easy to get hold of without the executor/ personal representative of the next of kin of the adult who was the legal owner and operator of the account.

shamac

Thanks to you all for your detailed replies. Inside the front cover it says Mr J Bloggs (granddad) re: Susie Brown (my daughter). There was no will, he had nothing to leave of any value. The next of kin is unlikely to be found, he married my mum later in life and we didn't really know his family. I only have a name, which is quite a common one and know they lived abroad-needle in a haystack time.

Apodemus

I don't what the equivalent in England would be, but in Scotland, the Ultimus Haeres unit (http://www.qltr.gov.uk/content/ultimus-haeres) might be able to help in this sort of case.

Keep_pedalling

As this is your FIL can't your spouse claim as his next of kin?

xylophone

Inside the front cover

The name of the account?

Is it specifically a "Child Saver"? Does interest show as having been paid gross?

Carrot007

Noy to sound all doomy but I had such an account from my father. (Although Leeds at first then Halifax when they took over IIRC)

They again said when you are 18. turned 18 and.. No still need sigtinure.

Got it when I he randomly sent a xmas card, when I was 26ish.

PeacefulWaters

In re accounts belong to the account holder (not the child) so form part of the estate on death.

If the balance is modest and you can get hold of the death certificate (small fee online) you could go into branch, sign a declaration claiming the funds and hand them over to your daughter.

There is the risk that other members of you FIL's family could pop up later and claim this amount from you (and legally they'd be right), but it sounds highly unlikely. And if they did, you could have a conversation stating that he intended your daughter to benefit from the money.

Westie983

I would hazard a guess that this account is a save4it or was a save4it account in re for a child, these accounts were opened in nominated adults names, with the proviso that the funds were earmarked for a child, the only person who could or can transact on these accounts is the nominated adults(s) even if the child is over the age of 16.

On point of the child's 16th birthday the account remains a save4it but tax was then taken, so some nominated adults at this point close and issue the children with the funds, some others keep the account open as they are not ready to allocate the funds to the person named (even if they are now over the age of 16). On 17 the accounts were moved to liquid gold account and still in control of the nominated adults.

On death of a nominated adult, if its not been open with two, then the account balance will form part of the estate and funds need to be distributed by the next of kin or executor if appropriate

Your daughter never had access nor was ever going to have access to the funds in the account till the nominated adult decided.

Some of these accounts are still open with nominated adults for people who are now longer children and that now have children of their own and they still need to have the nominated adult to make withdrawals or close the account.

The fact that it is or was a child account doesn't mean access is granted when the child legally becomes an adult.

Sorry this may not be the information you wanted to hear, but hope it helps to clear up misconception that the child would have had access or could get the balance of the account on turning 18.