My grandmother died leaving no will

Newbie1983

I was just after some advice for my dad, if anyone could offer any or signpost him in the right direction we would be very grateful.

My grandmother recently passed away very unexpectedly! She left 2 surviving children; my dad and his brother. My dad lived with my nan and between them had a joint banking account which both their money was paid into. There was a mortgage on the house which was in both of their names. The brother didn't have anything to do with the running of this house and certainly never paid any of the bills associated; he lives with his family some miles away. My grandmother died intestate and now my father is now worried about what will happen to the house etc.

Any advice gratefully received. Thank you for your time

TW1234

You say the "mortgage" was in father and grandmother's names but the important matter is whose name is on the land registry (deeds) and if it is jointly owned, whether it was as joint tenants or tenants in common.
You do need to consult the "deeds."

The joint bank account would pass (generally) directly to your father.

Browntoa

Depends whose names the land registry is in , if both names then she owns 50% which splits evenly between the two brothers , your dad ends up with 75% and the other 25%

Keep_pedalling

The bank account is no problem as everything in that is now his.

As for the house, it depends on the type of ownership. If held as joint tenants then he is now the sole owner as that does not form part of the estate. If however they held it as tenants in common then her share will be inherited 50/50 by your dad and your uncle.

VfM4meplse

TW1234 wrote: »

The joint bank account would pass (generally) directly to your father.

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

The bank account is no problem as everything in that is now his.

Is this correct?

I thought a joint account allowed access for the surviving party, but half of the value at the time of death gets thrown into the estate and is liable to IHT?

poppystar

VfM4meplse wrote: »

Is this correct?

I thought a joint account allowed access for the surviving party, but half of the value at the time of death gets thrown into the estate and is liable to IHT?

It goes in the pot for calculation of any possible iht but is not in the pot for distribution as it automatically passes to the joint holder as I understand it.

NordicNoir

From the help notes for IHT205:

Valuing joint bank accounts
Valuing the deceased’s share of a bank account is quite easy but sometimes an account may be held in joint names just for convenience. For example, if an elderly person can no longer get out, they may add a son’s or daughter’s name to their bank account so the son or daughter can operate the account for them.
If an account is in joint names for convenience and the deceased provided all the money in the account, you should treat the account as if it
was in the deceased’s sole name. Include the
full balance of the account in box 9.2 (for joint tenants) or 11.1 (if the account was held as tenants in common). But the opposite also applies, and if the deceased did not provide any of the money in the account and their name was on it for convenience only, then, so long as the provider did not intend to make a gift, there is no need to include anything about the joint account on form IHT205(2011).

VfM4meplse

MichelleUK wrote: »

From the help notes for IHT205:

Valuing joint bank accounts
Valuing the deceased’s share of a bank account is quite easy but sometimes an account may be held in joint names just for convenience. For example, if an elderly person can no longer get out, they may add a son’s or daughter’s name to their bank account so the son or daughter can operate the account for them.
If an account is in joint names for convenience and the deceased provided all the money in the account, you should treat the account as if it
was in the deceased’s sole name. Include the
full balance of the account in box 9.2 (for joint tenants) or 11.1 (if the account was held as tenants in common). But the opposite also applies, and if the deceased did not provide any of the money in the account and their name was on it for convenience only, then, so long as the provider did not intend to make a gift, there is no need to include anything about the joint account on form IHT205(2011).

So its down to the honesty of the surviving joint account holder?

Does the exceutor have any right to access the account history in the case of a joint account?

getmore4less

Tenants in common bank accounts are very rare as most people don't set them up like that or ever server the joint tenancy.

I think HMRC will accept for the taxable estate the real distribution of the asset but can ask for the evidence you used to come to the values used(like bank statements showing the inputs.)

Taxable estate is different to the distributable estate where survivorship still happens for joint accounts

For te house the Joint/tenets in common(TIC) has been covered but where a property is mortgaged then it is not as straight forward for TIC.

If TIC it is not as simple as a 75%:25% split the debt need to be resolved first.
either part of the debt goes with the ownership or the ownership gets changed to reflect the debt.

the distributable estate would be 50% less 50% of the debt.

(I see the OP never followed up their only other post...)

VfM4meplse

getmore4less wrote: »

I think HMRC will accept for the taxable estate the real distribution of the asset but can ask for the evidence you used to come to the values used(like bank statements showing the inputs.)

In practice, do they? Or challenge anything else on a IHT400?

And how long does it take for the IHT400 to be processed and the estate available for distribution? Sorry for hijacking the thread but I want to take as much pain away from my executor as possible.

Yorkshireman99

VfM4meplse wrote: »

In practice, do they? Or challenge anything else on a IHT400?

And how long does it take for the IHT400 to be processed and the estate available for distribution? Sorry for hijacking the thread but I want to take as much pain away from my executor as possible.

Figures do get challenged but it is impossible to predict. The time taken can vary considerably depending on how busy they are. Nobody can give you an accurate prediction of how long your application will take.