NCP - no keeper liability challenge

Bertie129

Hi all,

I've received a PCN from NCP which says that a notice to driver was issued to a driver of a car I own (the driver wasn't me and it was the first I'd heard of it). I've checked and the PCN was sent within the required timescales.

I challenged the notice on the basis of no keeper liability as I don't believe their PCN was POFA compliant, and I told them I wasn't driving at the time. My submission also challenged the PCN on the basis of inadequate signage, no right to form contracts, unclear photographic evidence, and unreasonable charge amount.

In their rejection response, they counter only the inadequate signage point, their reply pasted below.

In my POPLA appeal, should I challenge only the the basis of no keeper liability, or should I include the other points as well? I'll upload scans of the PCN and I'd be grateful if someone could check this is in fact not compliant for keeper liability.

Thanks!

Rejection_response_from_NCP wrote:

Thank you for your recent correspondence regarding the above notice number. We have considered the case carefully and have decided to reject your appeal on the following grounds;

The Parking Attendant has recorded that the vehicle was parked in a pay and display bay without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket. The valid pay and display ticket must then be clearly displayed ensuring that the expiry date is clearly visible from the outside of the vehicle.

The Terms and Conditions of which our services are provided are clearly displayed on entrance and throughout our facilities, including the requirement for motorist to ensure valid payment is clearly displayed at all times in the vehicle. We are confident that all signage and the PCN are compliant with all industry standards and to the British Parking Association's code of practice to which we subscribe.

You now have the following options;
Pay the Parking Charge Notice at the discounted amount of £20.00 within 14 days. Please note that after this time the Parking Charge Notice will increase to the full charge of £40.00.
Payment can be made:
* Online, by visiting https://www.ncp.co.uk/pcn
* By sending a cheque or postal order, made payable to National Car Parks Ltd to: National Car Parks Ltd. Notice Processing, PO Box 839, Northampton, NN4 4AL.
* By Debit or Credit card (except American Express). Please call 0345 452 7780 and have your card details and the information held in this letter to hand.

Alternatively, you can make an appeal to POPLA - The Independent Appeals Service. If you wish to make an appeal to POPLA the forms are available on the website at https://www.popla.co.uk. The verification code you will need in order to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service is XXXXXX. Please note that if you opt for independent arbitration of your case you will lose your opportunity to pay the discounted offer and the full amount of the parking charge will apply. Your appeal to POPLA must be made within 28 days of the date of this letter, any appeals to POPLA made after the 28 days will not be assessed. The independent adjudicator is unable to waive the parking notice because of mitigating circumstances and a decision will be based on facts and evidence only. If you have any trouble in appealing or cannot access the website please contact us on 01604 625 622.

By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (https://www.ombudsman-services.org/) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.

If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.

pappa_golf

umm , £20 or £40 , almost tempting ? , however the thought of them paying £27 to submit a POPLa reply in , is nice !

even if you loose at POPLa , and it costs them £27 , they still have to give you 28 days to pay , or not!

enjoy , will they bail out , as they will only make £17 ??

Bertie129

PCN images:

pappa_golf

goto popla , start taking poker lessons , enjoy , chances are they will bail out due to profit , if found against , its a case of pay them £40 or not (28 days) they cannot get debt collectors involved whilst POPLa ,

The_Slithy_Tove

Bertie129 wrote: »

I challenged the notice

Just to confirm, is the notice you challenged the one you've now posted? Several things wrong with it.

It claims that you were the driver, which is a bit of a presumption on their part.

It says you are required to do a, b or c, where there is no requirement to do any of those things, so they are misrepresenting the facts, which puts them in a poor position should they try to take it further (which they have no history in doing).

The NTK does not conform to POFA. It misses some of the key wording required by the Act.

Coupon-mad

The OP is not going to lose at POPLA, not with that NTK and his appeal points as keeper.

Include all the things you said in the first appeal and NCP will cancel. 'No keeper liability' goes first, followed by the usual templates as shown in post #3 of the NEWBIES thread.

Bertie129

Thanks everyone. I think the NTK is not POFA compliant on the following grounds. Is my interpretation correct?

Draft wrote:

The Notice does not:

• Specify the period of parking to which the notice relates (section a).
• Repeat the information given in the notice to driver, including i) describing the charges owed by the driver in relation to the period of parking and other facts that made the charges payable; ii) informing the driver that the parking charges relating to the specified period of parking have not been paid in full and specifying the total amount of the unpaid parking charges relating to that period (section c; see further POFA Schedule 4, Paragraph 7, sub-section 2, clauses b and c, referenced in this clause).
• State that the creditor does not know the name and address of the driver of the vehicle or invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges (section e). The notice is directed solely at the driver of the vehicle and claims “we understand you to be the driver”.
• Warn the keeper of potential liability for the parking charge (section f).
• Identify the creditor for the charge (section h).

Coupon-mad

Yes and I would add that it is very clearly a non-POFA PCN by intention, because the last lines on the front talk further only about how the 'driver will be liable'. Nothing about keeper liability.