Tracing western union payments of deceased.

MadMag

I am Executer of my Father's Estate along with my brother.. We are 18 months into sorting out his mess. He had a live in Italian carer for the last 5 years of his life to which he has left 40% of his Estate We believe through independent witnesses that he was coerced and blackmailed (she said she would leave) into increasing pay and lending or giving thousands of pounds to this woman. There is a very small amount of gifts and loans she has admitted to and filled in on officiail forms, but nothing like the amount missing from the esate. A case has been prepared for the police. A lot of money is untraceable as paid to cash but we have been informed Western Union was used a great deal by him to pay money into the Carers Daughter's account. Is this money in any way traceable ?

lincroft1710

There will usually be hardcopy details of transactions using WU, but as this is not a UK company and uses agents, details may be difficult to trace even before you jump through the hoop of not being the person involved in the transactions, and the fact you are going back several years.

Interesting that your late father has paid a lot of money into the carer's daughter's account, actually makes it seem more suspicious that these were not voluntary actions.

MadMag

Thanks for your reply. Would the police have more access to Western Union payments?

Yorkshireman99

MadMag wrote: »

I am Executer of my Father's Estate along with my brother.. We are 18 months into sorting out his mess. He had a live in Italian carer for the last 5 years of his life to which he has left 40% of his Estate We believe through independent witnesses that he was coerced and blackmailed (she said she would leave) into increasing pay and lending or giving thousands of pounds to this woman. There is a very small amount of gifts and loans she has admitted to and filled in on officiail forms, but nothing like the amount missing from the esate. A case has been prepared for the police. A lot of money is untraceable as paid to cash but we have been informed Western Union was used a great deal by him to pay money into the Carers Daughter's account. Is this money in any way traceable ?

Coercion and blackmail are serious charges. You are going to have a very hard job convincing the police, and then for them to convince the CPS to agree that there is a reasonable chance of conviction. What proof do you have as opposed to "thinking" what has happened?

Keep_pedalling

WU is the method of choice for scammers, because the receiver can collect cash, however if this was sent to a bank account as stated then all transactions can be traced to the owner of the bank account .

However proving this has happened is difficult, and if she was hired as his full time carer I would expect that to cost him many 10s of thousands over that period of time, so separating her pay from any other cash she took could be even trickier.

securityguy

MadMag wrote: »

witnesses that he was coerced and blackmailed (she said she would leave) into increasing pay

There is no imaginable legal world in which "increase my pay and give me a bonus or I will resign" is blackmail. Otherwise anyone who has ever had a pay negotiation including a threat to leave for another job would be in gaol, and they manifestly aren't.

There are, however, plenty of legal worlds in which going around accusing people of serious crimes is defamatory, and likely to if nothing else irretrievably poison any subsequent legal action.

MadMag

securityguy wrote: »

There is no imaginable legal world in which "increase my pay and give me a bonus or I will resign" is blackmail. Otherwise anyone who has ever had a pay negotiation including a threat to leave for another job would be in gaol, and they manifestly aren't.

There are, however, plenty of legal worlds in which going around accusing people of serious crimes is defamatory, and likely to if nothing else irretrievably poison any subsequent legal action.

Thanks for your reply. If that is said over and over to a vulnerable elderley man that is totally dependent on you and the threat is there that you will withdraw your services and you tell him repeatedly that he cannot cope without you then I believe this is paramount to emotional blackmail. Btw I am not talking negotiations only with salary I am talking loans and gifts and supporting her family, otherwise she will leave her position.

securityguy

"Tantamount to emotional blackmail" is a very long way from anything actionable, I'm afraid.

Employees can demand what they want. Employers can refuse. If people are vulnerable to the point that such negotiations are difficult for them then that is regrettable and unlikely to end well: showing that a threat to resign (something any non-military employee is perfectly entitled to both threaten and to do) is of itself coercive is going to be almost impossible; with one party dead it is for practical purposes completely impossible. Actions for undue influence in the writing of wills are for this reason virtually impossible to win. If the will leaves money to the carer it presumably isn't witnessed by her (as if it were, it would be invalid) so showing lack of capacity would be extremely difficult.

A old man is entitled to give gifts to whoever he wants, even if this is unwise or even foolish. The threshold for judging people incapable of managing their own affairs via the court of protection is challenging, although of course that option was open to his relatives.

Tuesday_Tenor

securityguy wrote: »

it presumably isn't witnessed by her (as if it were, it would be invalid)

Not quite correct; the will would be valid (assuming 2 witnesses to the signature of the testator) but any bequest to a witness would fail.

Yorkshireman99

MadMag wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. If that is said over and over to a vulnerable elderley man that is totally dependent on you and the threat is there that you will withdraw your services and you tell him repeatedly that he cannot cope without you then I believe this is paramount to emotional blackmail. Btw I am not talking negotiations only with salary I am talking loans and gifts and supporting her family, otherwise she will leave her position.

It may be unpleasant and distressuping but it does not meet the standard of proof that would make it criminal. If the "independent witnesses" are so sure why did they not alert you long ago? If you were aware why did you.not act earlier? The same can be said about challenging the will. Expect to pay at least £20K to start the legal,action and even more. Even then how likely will you be to be able to recover the funds?

securityguy

Tuesday_Tenor wrote: »

Not quite correct; the will would be valid (assuming 2 witnesses to the signature of the testator) but any bequest to a witness would fail.

Sorry, yes, I hadn't remembered that the OP said it lef 40% to the carer, not all of it.