Getting aunt into care home

sortofwinning

Hi, this isn't exactly a money saving issue but I'm only a member of two forums, and the other one is a health-related one, so I thought I would try posting in here.


My 85 year old aunt has dementia. She will ask four or five times in the space of twenty minutes what day is it and what time is it, and can't remember what answer you gave her five minutes before. She thinks her hair is normally brown (it was thirty years ago) and that one of her sisters has dyed it white. She can't remember where she's been or what she's done an hour before, let alone a day before. She thinks she owns a bank and runs it. She is now starting to forget who some of my cousins are, the ones she sees less often than me. We went out for lunch with my cousin/her niece just before Christmas and afterwards she said to me, "Who was that girl?" She constantly lifts people's phones and puts them in her handbag because she thinks they are remote controls for her tv. It's a long, long list.


Her specialist doctor will not diagnose her with dementia. We are baffled at this because firstly her GP took her driving license off her a couple of years ago due to her evident memory problems, secondly my aunt's sisters, including my mum, have repeatedly told my aunt's doctors about all the things she does, but the specialist still will not diagnose her, and thirdly, my aunt has seen other medical professionals such as an occupational therapist recently, plus a doctor in A&E when she fell not too long ago, and all other medical professionals have said she has dementia (even the A&E doctor who only spoke to her for a few minutes), but not the specialist, who is apparently the only one who can definitively diagnose her.


As selfish as it sounds, I want my aunt diagnosed asap because it is my 81 year old mother who has to take primary responsibility for her, and my mum is not in good health herself. The repeated questions from my aunt, the same things over and over, all the running around after my aunt, all cause my mum a lot of stress. Even though it might not sound very nice, I just want my aunt to go into a care home to take the strain off my mum. I am doing a lot of running around after my aunt as well, to save my mum from having to do it, and I have major mental health problems of my own, which I have to cope with on a daily basis, along with part time work and part time study, and looking after my mum too.


Does anyone know why a specialist would refuse to diagnose dementia in someone? Are they trying to save the NHS money or something? Is there anything we can do? I have told my mum to pay for a private psychiatrist, who will at least spend an hour with my aunt, and anyone who spends an hour with her will be left in no doubt, so I reckon a private shrink would diagnose her.


My mum has said she might do this, but that even if we get a diagnosis for my aunt, my aunt still doesn't have to go into a care home if she doesn't want to, and she's not going to want to (kicking and screaming would not even begin to describe it, she is extremely stubborn).


Can anyone advise on what we can do? Currently my aunt has carers for 15 mins morning and night, and the rest of the family have basically dumped all of her care on my mum (and therefore me).

Torry_Quine

Unless she can be sectioned its up to her whether she goes into a care home. A diagnosis in itself doesn't change anything in itself as care is about needs.

Your mum as a carer though is entitled to her own assessment and can't be made to look after her.

spadoosh

Dementia isnt just poor memory, theres other likely effects too and im guessing when checks are made she passes those areas with flying colours. Memory does deteriorate with age and doesn't necessarily mean dementia. Personality swings is normally quite a big one in dementia sufferers. Dont be so sure of your diagnosis when its likely your only knowledge on the subject is basic.

Has she had a mini mental state examination? And what where the results of this?

You (your mother) need to look at the support plan, find out what has been discussed and contact social worker whose assigned to your auntie to suggest changes are needed.

ETA the only reason i can imagine a specialist (not sure what the doctor is a specialist in?!) doctor wouldnt diagnose someone with something is if they believed they didnt have it.

Savvy_Sue

As above, your aunt could go into a care home with or without a diagnosis if she wanted to go. But she can't be forced to do so against her will unless she lacks 'capacity' to make such a decision - and that's quite a narrow definition.

However, if your mother feels that she needs more care than she and you can provide, she should ask for more. Would your aunt be a danger to herself or others if left to her own devices more?

GlasweJen

It's not going to help in the long term but this might give you a big of relief for a few minutes. Look at how hospitals keep wards "dementia friendly" and see how you could make small changes around the home to help.

Off the top of my head our waiting area has the day of the week on the main notice board under the clock along with the date written with the month as a work. The clock has a picture of the sun on it during the day and it switches to the moon at 6pm. Could you have a similar notice board that you update daily to keep your gran grounded a bit, if needs I would put one at her house and one at your mums if she visits there a lot.

You could also have a picture calendar where you put up photos of what you're going to do and when to help prompt her memory.

As a family I would see if you could get trained on how to deal with someone with severe memory loss. Tips include changing the subject if something is upsetting the suffered, don't ask or expect the person to remember, don't embarrass the person by pointing out what they've forgotten.

teddysmum

My father had Parkinson's and developed dementia near the end of his life.


His daily LA carers suggested he go into a home and had someone have a chat with him, but he refused so they had to let him stay at home.


Eventually,he was taken to a specialist hospital, then a home, as he had left the gas cooker on (not for the first time and it wasn't a modern one that cuts out if the flame is blown out) so was a danger to himself and others.


My mother-in-law had no other ailments , was sectioned then put in a home when she constantly walked the streets at all hours, convinced that she was going on a bus trip .

sortofwinning

spadoosh wrote: »

Personality swings is normally quite a big one in dementia sufferers. Dont be so sure of your diagnosis when its likely your only knowledge on the subject is basic.

Has she had a mini mental state examination? And what where the results of this?

QUOTE]


Yes she's had a couple of examinations but seems to do ok on these, but the past couple of times I've taken her to the hospital, she's rehearsed answers on the way down, like she thought she was going to get asked questions. I had to take her for just a brain scan a few weeks ago but she thought she was going for another Q&A session so she was asking me what day it was (she said to me it was 1916 instead of 2016) and was asking me what date she was born.



There are personality changes and yes, I do think she's a danger to herself because she's become paranoid that her neighbours are watching her and so she has started sitting in the dark with no lights on - not the best idea when you had two falls in the space of just a couple of days, although both falls were outside of her house so we can't use the falls to say she was a danger to herself because she sits with the lights off.


Also, she became extremely aggressive the day I took her for the brain scan. She thought that she had brought someone to the hospital, not that I had brought her. She then started saying, "I can't understand this, I brought someone here and now I'm the victim" and started shouting at me and telling me she was very angry - all very unlike the old her, who was very quiet. She got aggressive with the hospital staff and refused to have the scan, and they had to call me in to talk sense into her, which I only just about managed. She just seemed to think that there was some sort of conspiracy to get her scanned, and was saying, "Oh I know what they're all up to, I know why they're doing this" and stuff like that.


GlasweJen, there is a large digital clock in her house on the mantelpiece and it would be a 24 hour one, but she won't look at it. I keep telling her to look at the clock as it has the time and the day, and she just won't look, or forgets, I don't know which. I then tried to tell her I was changing it to 24 hour format so that she would know whether it was day or night, but she wouldn't let me touch it, she said it would confuse her.


I did have an idea like what you are saying about actually writing down whether it's day or night, but the problem would be that I mostly only go to her in the evening, unless I have to take her to the doctor or hospital or the bank or something. So if I put up a sign at 4pm saying Evening, I would then have to turn up at 6am every morning to change the sign to Morning. The carers come in at 8am and I'm not sure I could ask them to do it or that they would remember, because they are supposed to write in her book that they have put her eye drops in and they keep forgetting to do that.


Teddysmum, my aunt doesn't go near her cooker. We bring a sandwich for her every day which the carers give her for dinner cos she won't eat anything else for dinner. If she went near her cooker, she would definitely do some damage. She wouldn't remember to switch it off. I think she realises she can't operate her cooker any more because she can hardly even operate her tv remote control.


Looks like from what everybody says, we can't make her go anywhere. We'll maybe try getting some more help from outside, just don't know if we'll get any with the NHS so stretched.


Thanks everyone for your help.

GlasweJen

She might have forgotten how to decode 24 hour time format, she's unlikely to have learned how to read a digital clock in school. Try a clock with hands and see if she responds better to that

suzeesu2000

What is the "specialist" you refer to? Surely her ordinary GP can diagnose her?

sortofwinning

suzeesu2000 wrote: »

What is the "specialist" you refer to? Surely her ordinary GP can diagnose her?

I'm not sure of what exactly the title of the specialist is, I only know her name. Apparently her own GP cannot diagnose her. I'm not 100% on all of this because it's my mum who attends the memory clinic appointments with my aunt, I usually do the more mundane ones like the falls clinic and hospital appointments. So I have to go on what my mum says, and my mum keep saying that Dr N has to diagnose her, and Dr N is refusing to do so. Dr N may be either a neurologist or maybe psychiatrist, I'm just not sure. She is a consultant of some sort.


The whole situation is ridiculous. My aunt has lost the sight in one eye due to glaucoma. If she had been in a care home, that's the sort of thing they would have known to keep an eye on, no pun intended. But we've just been coping on our own, with carers coming in for a total of 20-30 mins a day and all they do is make her breakfast, a cup of tea in the evening, wash a few dishes. That is the total amount of support we have received. We didn't have a clue that my aunt was losing her sight. We've had so much to deal with and so much to-ing and fro-ing with my aunt, and none of us ever thought Oh maybe she's at risk from glaucoma. No doctor ever said to us ok you have to watch out for this and watch out for that. I blame Dr N for my aunt losing her sight.


GlasweJen, I'll maybe get her an analogue clock as you've mentioned. She'll still be asking whether it's day or night but at least she might stop asking what time it is.

Mojisola

sortofwinning wrote: »

I'm not sure of what exactly the title of the specialist is, I only know her name.

So I have to go on what my mum says, and my mum keep saying that Dr N has to diagnose her, and Dr N is refusing to do so. Dr N may be either a neurologist or maybe psychiatrist, I'm just not sure. She is a consultant of some sort.

Get your Mum to ask if your aunt can be seen by someone else for a second opinion.