Please help UKPC Charge in keepers name not mine. Appeal? Ignore?

Lisa211006

Hi. I parked in my permit area outside my newly bought flat when I first moved in, I was waiting for permits to arrive from property management agency (which I pay for) so I had no permit in beginning and received a fine.
I then received another when I had my permit but my resident space was gone (someone had parked in it) so I used my permit and parked in the visitors bay (I was still waiting for my visitors permits that id paid for to arrive)
I thought this was ok as I was showing a permit and you could see all the resident spaces were full. When I received the fines I spoke to the property management and they said they had tried to get the fines cancelled but UKPC refused to. (I have this on email)
The fines keep coming to the registered keeper (not me) as I was borrowing car.
Now they've been sent to debt collectors etc
I'm just wondering what to do? Do I appeal or get the keeper to? Or ignore. No fine mentions my name as driver. Just the keeper. (Who I don't want to end up with my fines etc)
Please help ?
There are signs but there no overly big and it doesn't seem to say about different visitors and residents permits.
I pay for both and sometimes I can't even use either as it's full. Even someone parked in my allocated space.

Coupon-mad

Please read the Parking Prankster's blog about your rights in a residential car park:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/residential-parking.html

Personally in your case I would get the keeper to name you as the driver, partly because:

- UKPC's Notices do tend to comply(ish) with the POFA 2012, so arguing 'no keeper liability' in court isn't a great defence.

- and you've said you want to remove that person from the equation (the keeper) so they need to write and give your name and postal address.

- and IMHO you have a far better defence as resident, showing your lease terms that give you primacy of contract, and a defence from you would be easier to argue and to spare the person you don't want to be caught up in this.

So, get the person to write to UKPC with ALL the PCN numbers in a heading on the letter, giving your name and address as the driver and then UKPC will write to you. The keeper MUST keep proof of posting (not recorded delivery) just 1st class at the PO Counter, keeping a free 'certificate of posting' he/she can ask for. Staple that receipt to a printed out copy of the exact letter they send, and give that proof to you in case you need to defend a claim later on.

Then when UKPC turn their attention to you, then you can respond robustly showing them that you have primacy of contract, were merely waiting for a permit, and any attempt to charge you for your right to park interferes with the AST or lease agreement and that is unlawful...blah blah...we have some really strong examples on here already written by people in your shoes.

You may well find UKPC start a small claim but at least it would be at you and not the keeper, and you could then get our help to defend this. Residential car park cases have so much in the way of defence points as you can see from that blog alone - this is unfair and an attempt to disregard your rights to park, that you pay for already.

Lisa211006

That's great thank you for your response. I was getting so confused with what to do first.
So I will get the Keeper to write to UKPC and forward my details.
Do I ignore debt recovery plus letters? It says they're acting "on behalf" of their client.
Do I then just wait for the UKPC to contact me directly?
Many Thanks

The_Deep

Why do you need a permit to park on your own land? What does your lease say, (exact wording please)?

Read some of these

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**

https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/213077149-Milton-Keynes-woman-secures-landmark-victory-for-flat-tenants-in-parking-dispute

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/residential-parking.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/ukpc-hit-for-352-for-discontinuing.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/tenancy-agreement-not-overruled-by.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/link-parking-lose-in-wrexham-flat-owner_2.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/smart-parking-settle-out-of-court-for.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/tenancy-agreement-not-overruled-by.html

fisherjim

Lisa211006 wrote: »

That's great thank you for your response. I was getting so confused with what to do first.
So I will get the Keeper to write to UKPC and forward my details.
Do I ignore debt recovery plus letters? It says they're acting "on behalf" of their client.
Do I then just wait for the UKPC to contact me directly?
Many Thanks

These are not fines and you should not contact debt recovery plus who are idiots and just bung on £60 for the effort of sending bullying letters, they can't do any more than that!

Lisa211006

Hiya. I'll have to check the exact wording.
But all I know is that I own a flat and parking space and I paid management company for permits for the car park onsite at the flats. This is then "run" by UKPC. i shall take a look into the exact terms of the lease. And let you know.

Lisa211006

fisherjim wrote: »

These are not fines and you should not contact debt recovery plus who are idiots and just bung on £60 for the effort of sending bullying letters, they can't do any more than that!

Thank you, I kindve got the feeling they were trying to scare into paying by threatening court action etc !

Fruitcake

Lisa211006 wrote: »

Hiya. I'll have to check the exact wording.
But all I know is that I own a flat and parking space and I paid management company for permits for the car park onsite at the flats. This is then "run" by UKPC. i shall take a look into the exact terms of the lease. And let you know.

If you own or rent the parking space and the terms of your ownership/lease/AST do not mention parking, or do not mention permits, then you should not be asked to pay for permits to park on "your" land where there is an existing contract.

No third party can add conditions to your existing contract.

Lisa211006

Ok thank you. I get a bit confused by the legal jargon as it were. Is there a way that I can submit a photo of my lease terms re parking so it can be read, save me typing it out?

Fruitcake

Lisa211006 wrote: »

Ok thank you. I get a bit confused by the legal jargon as it were. Is there a way that I can submit a photo of my lease terms re parking so it can be read, save me typing it out?

Redact any personal information then upload it to a web hosting site such as tinypic or photobucket, then post the URL here, but change http to hxxp. Someone here will then change it back to a live link.

Coupon-mad

Lisa211006 wrote: »

Ok thank you. I get a bit confused by the legal jargon as it were. Is there a way that I can submit a photo of my lease terms re parking so it can be read, save me typing it out?

Yes, please scan it and host it in Dropbox or Tinypic then show a broken link.

Everyone else normally just changes http to hxxp in the URL to the pics. Your case is defendable with the right words and they are not just trying to scare you. This will end up in a court claim that you will have to defend - all good life experience and no CCJ even if you lose (and then pay). If you win, you can claim your lost earnings for attending the hearing.