Double Probate - House has been sold without Executors knowing

kieran_hebden

Hi

Three executors currently. Two of which obtained a joint double grant of probate a few years later down in the line as nothing was really going anywhere. So there is an first grant by the first executor and then a double grant later on.

These should run in parallel to each other - right?

The main asset of the deceased being the house, is being sold to one of the beneficiaries. A conveyancing solicitor was appointed recently by the agreement of all three executors.

However, now the house sale has been complete without the 2 executors who has the double probate even signing any paperwork for the assent of the property !! It seems the first executor, solicitor and remaining beneficiary have gone behind our backs.

No updates or anything was even given and still to this date, until we phoned the solicitor asking for an update and he said he can't remember what happened and he is tired and is working later etc etc but only told us but "he acted on the first probate"

Is this even possible? it doesn't make sense

Yorkshireman99

kieran_hebden wrote: »

Hi

Three executors currently. Two of which obtained a joint double grant of probate a few years later down in the line as nothing was really going anywhere. So there is an first grant by the first executor and then a double grant later on.

These should run in parallel to each other - right?

The main asset of the deceased being the house, is being sold to one of the beneficiaries. A conveyancing solicitor was appointed recently by the agreement of all three executors.

However, now the house sale has been complete without the 2 executors who has the double probate even signing any paperwork for the assent of the property !! It seems the first executor, solicitor and remaining beneficiary have gone behind our backs.

No updates or anything was even given and still to this date, until we phoned the solicitor asking for an update and he said he can't remember what happened and he is tired and is working later etc etc but only told us but "he acted on the first probate"

Is this even possible? it doesn't make sense

Nobody can get probate twice for the same estate. You need to give more information. Sale of a property of an estate cannot take place without the executor's consent except by fraud.

getmore4less

These should run in parallel to each other - right?

On what basis is that assumption made.

When the second grant taken out usually you would have the previous one thrown out.

kieran_hebden

getmore4less wrote: »

These should run in parallel to each other - right?

On what basis is that assumption made.

When the second grant taken out usually you would have the previous one thrown out.

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

Nobody can get probate twice for the same estate. You need to give more information. Sale of a property of an estate cannot take place without the executor's consent except by fraud.

Hi maybe I said it wrong.

Four beneficiaries, all of who are executors are on the will. O
ne executor became the lead as such to deal with probate etc, with the other having the power reserved.
Later on 2 of the benefercies approached probate office and became executors of the estate also – obtaining a double grant of probabte.

So now we have 3 executors acting (and the fourth has her power reserved …which from what I understand they can also became an executor again if they wish like we have).


We all 3 executors agreed on the solicitor for conveyancing.




let me know if more info is needed

kieran_hebden

Also the first executor has the estate account from day one. Since we became executors also, he denied us to be added onto it after several requests and requests to the bank

estate accounts are still needed agreeing on and some things are still in dispute


edit: currently we don't even know where the sale proceeds of the house has even gone.

getmore4less

"grant of double probate"

looked it up.

if solicitors are involved in the sale and they knew about the double probate they may be negligent if they went ahead with the first grant.

no idea how buyers solicitors and land reg would know.

get new legal help.

kieran_hebden

the only thing the solicitor was willing to say was, in unsure words, that he asked the land registerey if it was okay to use the initial/first grant of probate and proceeded with that.
That doesn't sound right at all. That defeats the purpose of the double grant..

Solicitor was fully aware in writing of of the double grant and so is the buyers solicitor

He ceased contact with us for months and not only until we contacted we became aware.

So the collusion has been between the one of the executors of the estate, conv sol of estate, buyer being a beneficiary and buyers sol.

Should I press onto the land registry department to see what has happened?
It just seems very odd.

There are still items belonging to the estate... which are still in the house (which now no longer belongs to the estate).

What happens in the case of solicitor negligence? A slap on the wrist?

getmore4less

kieran_hebden wrote: »

the only thing the solicitor was willing to say was, in unsure words, that he asked the land registerey if it was okay to use the initial/first grant of probate and proceeded with that.
That doesn't sound right at all. That defeats the purpose of the double grant..

Ask the land reg and the probate office yourself or get legal help to do it..

land reg have a rep that posts on here they may offer an opinion once they see the thread.


Why did you go for double probate over having the 1st exec removed?

You need contentious probate legal help

Land_Registry

You don't often read about 'double probate' but they can occur and they tend to come about where probate has been granted to one executor with power reserved to another. The proving executor has full power to act alone but only until such time as the other executor may decide to take up his/her duties, in which case a new grant of probate will be granted.

A double probate will be referred to as such at the bottom of the probate, the recital will include the words 'further granted' and the date of the former grant will be shown. Upon the grant of a double probate the executor(s) named in the double probate join the executor(s) named in the original grant of probate as co-executors.

So if I have understood correctly there was a double probate but the sale/transfer has been completed on the basis of the original grant alone. If that is the case I imagine that all that was lodged was the original grant of probate so we would be unaware of the double probate's existence.

However you also mention that 'he asked the land registerey if it was okay to use the initial/first grant of probate and proceeded with that.
That doesn't sound right at all. That defeats the purpose of the double grant..' - I assume you are implying that our answer was Yes but as per the explanation above, I would have expected the answer to be No.

As such I would recommend applying for a copy of the documents submitted in support of the application or asking for clarification of whether a double probate was provided. It seem clear that the latter was not the case though if the double probate executors were not involved in the sale/transfer but still worth asking the question.

Once you have those details then it is legal advice you need as I imagine it would be a legal challenge you then need to make as to the actions of the original executor and/or the solicitor(s) involved

kieran_hebden

thank very much. An email has been sent to you