Brexit and Money

Malthusian

If someone wants to move to the Middle East because the "plebs" in the UK didn't vote the way they thought they should, I think their move to the Middle East is long overdue. They'll feel right at home.

Linton

Malthusian wrote: »

If someone wants to move to the Middle East because the "plebs" in the UK didn't vote the way they thought they should, I think their move to the Middle East is long overdue. They'll feel right at home.

Judging from the attitudes expressed here, in the popular press and elsewhere, I suspect they may.

Linton

For those of us dependent on investments there is an easy way to minimise the longer term effects of the Brexit vote. Simply ensure that your investment in UK companies is relatively small. You avoid the decrease in the importance of UK industry and gain from the fall in the £. Those still in work are perhaps not so fortunate.

I wonder how many of the pro Brexit people contributing here have backed their beliefs by moving their foreign investments into the UK?

Pincher

Linton wrote: »

I wonder how many of the pro Brexit people contributing here have backed their beliefs by moving their foreign investments into the UK?

I had a good inning with HSBA, which was going up due to the foreign exposure. What with sterling rising, it's on a downward trend since February. Taking my money and running, and bought some LLOY instead, in time for the 6th April 2017 ex-dividend date Sold HSBA AFTER the 23rd February 2017 HSBA ex-dividend date, naturally.

I voted LEAVE.

bowlhead99

Pincher wrote: »

I had a good inning with HSBA, which was going up due to the foreign exposure. What with sterling rising, it's on a downward trend since February. Taking my money and running, and bought some LLOY instead, in time for the 6th April 2017 ex-dividend date Sold HSBA AFTER the 23rd February 2017 HSBA ex-dividend date, naturally.

I voted LEAVE.

Yes i remember back in January you and our dearly departed Bigfreddiel were saying HSBC was the greatest thing since sliced bread; Freddie said he had loads of them from reinvesting his divs over the years, and was incredulous that Shore Capital had marked it as a sell; you described it variously as a "wet dream of a share", and "one of those wonder foods; all you need to eat is HSBC to fill your ISA", and mentioned you wouldn't sell it because of the high CGT.

Since that point however it's down 30-40p from the early to mid Jan price when you were making your comments which is a lot more than the 16p divs it's paid in between.

You mention you sold it "after 23 Feb, naturally" so you took the dividend, and ahead of buying Lloyds in your ISA this tax year... so probably sold between 645 and 670? Whereas selling between mid Jan and 20th Feb instead of stubbornly holding on would have released 680-720p. With hindsight the extra 60p of share price available in mid Feb would have been better to take than the 16p dividend even if your CGT rate would have been 10% Vs the div rate of 7.5%...

Still, hindsight is wonderful

EachPenny

Linton wrote: »

Malthusian wrote: »

If someone wants to move to the Middle East because the "plebs" in the UK didn't vote the way they thought they should, I think their move to the Middle East is long overdue. They'll feel right at home.

Judging from the attitudes expressed here, in the popular press and elsewhere, I suspect they may.

In terms of 'attitudes', the OP actually stated, apparently in relation to moving to the ME, that "I don't se myself in a burka" [sic].

Anyone willing to defend that 'attitude'?

So I hope they have been lucky enough to move to Cyprus, which is sunny and warm, and of course totally free from financial problems and crime.

Pincher

bowlhead99 wrote: »

and mentioned you wouldn't sell it because of the high CGT.

With hindsight the extra 60p of share price available in mid Feb would have been better to take than the 16p dividend even if your CGT rate would have been 10% Vs the div rate of 7.5%...

Still, hindsight is wonderful

Rock and a hard place.

Selling at ~£7 would incur ~£57k of gains, 20,000 x ( £7.11 - £4.25) mostly 20% CGT, so really didn't want to sell in 2016/17.

Worked out an interesting ruse, though.
Using the 30 day rule, I have until 4th May to buy the HSBA shares back, so that I don't pay the big gain, 20,000 x ( £6.56 - £4.25 ) in 2016/17.

Sell 20,000 shares of HSBA at £6.56 on 5th April (still in 2016/17).
e.g. Buy 20,000 shares of HSBA at £6.42 on 27th April.

The 30 day matching rule means the 27th April Buy is matched to the Sell on 5th April Sell, and the original £4.25 Buy is now NOT CRYSTALISED. The matched Buy/Sell generates a ~£2k gain, which will be paying 10% CGT in the 2016/17 tax filing.

I still have a few days left, and I'm hoping HSBA will drop to £6.25, so that I can buy back in cheaper.

The Lloyds diversion seems to have worked out rather well.
Bought at 65.5p on 5th April, bagged the 2.2p dividend, to be paid in May. It did drop to 63p, as it should post ex-dividend, but it just won't stay still.


Just so you have something to gloat at, BT.A is sucking right now.

bowlhead99

Pincher wrote: »

Worked out an interesting ruse, though.

Yes, if you don't want to pay the tax on the historic gain this year and rather kick it down the road for later, you can make the gain much smaller by triggering the 30 day rule. If the price has a crazy spike up next week for some reason, you could even turn it into a loss and offset some more of your 16/17 CGT... Or bank the loss for a future year.

Just so you have something to gloat at, BT.A is sucking right now.

My gut instinct is that the fall back in January after the Italian debacle was probably overdone, as such things often are when there's a scandal for a few hundred million. But I haven't looked at it closely enough to be honest, perhaps the December price had got too far ahead of itself anyway.

The business doesn't seem noticeably worse now than it was back in January, so it doesn't seem doom and gloom. If the fall in Jan was overdone, the 'bounce' back upwards which has now retreated (with price back at the 300p or £30bn level like it was in January) will probably get recovered. So maybe not a bad price to build from, from here, even though people buying in the last 3 or 4 years won't like it.

Pincher

bowlhead99 wrote: »

The business doesn't seem noticeably worse now than it was back in January, so it doesn't seem doom and gloom.

The dividend isn't bad at all, if it keeps coming.
The money was sitting in NS&I making 1%, soon to be 0.75%, any way.

The awkward thing is, the combined dividends from shares, plus some rental income, is seriously using up the £32k basic rate band. If it wasn't for the fresh £11,300 CGT allowance, I still can't sell much of the HSBA in 2017/18.

I really don't want to pay higher rate tax.
You can say one million sodomites can't be wrong,
but I just know I will feel dirty doing it.