British Gas bill estimates

magyar

A friend of mine recently got contacted by BG to say that her DD (just for elec, not dual fuel) needed to go up from c.£35 to £90. When she contacted them, it turns out they did a meter read in Dec which was the first since 2014 and since then her estimated bills had been too low, thus a debt had built up.

Let's leave aside the point about she should have provided manual reads: she knows that now.

I think that I'm right in saying that Supply Co's have to do a meter read at least once every 2 years (thus unless the 2014 read was also right at the end of Dec, they didn't) and also that they can only go back one year in respect of not billing.

However I'm not sure if that is simply if they didn't provide *any* bill, or if the bill was wrong because they were relying on estimates. Does anyone know?

matelodave

AFAIK BG specifically have a dispensation to only read gas meters onece every 5 years and that's for a safety check. I don't think that there's any timescale required for leccy meter reading.

You'd have to check the specific licencing condition that apply to your supplier.

Most suppliers now have on-line accounts and if no one bothers to check their account or check their bills when or if they are posted then they'll end up with estimated bills - unfortunately that can lead to gross over or underpayment.

90% of the problems on this forum is beacause people dont check their meters, bills or bank accounts. The back-billing rules dont cover that

magyar

matelodave wrote: »

AFAIK BG specifically have a dispensation to only read gas meters onece every 5 years and that's for a safety check. I don't think that there's any timescale required for leccy meter reading.

You'd have to check the specific licencing condition that apply to your supplier.

Most suppliers now have on-line accounts and if no one bothers to check their account or check their bills when or if they are posted then they'll end up with estimated bills - unfortunately that can lead to gross over or underpayment.

90% of the problems on this forum is beacause people dont check their meters, bills or bank accounts. The back-billing rules dont cover that

Yes appreciate that the back billing rules don't cover simply incorrect bills due to normal estimate errors, but in this case if they have missed the two year rule (and it is two years, I checked, see below) then I don't know what the implication of this is?

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2015/07/reforming_suppliers_meter_inspection_obligations_final_0.pdf

matelodave

Did you read this bit

"In 2012, we received a request from British Gas to consent to operate alternative
gas and electricity meter inspection arrangements. We considered British Gas’ risk
assessment and sought advice from the HSE in deciding to consent to alternative
arrangements for British Gas.
When we announced our decision to allow British Gas to operate alternative meter
inspection arrangements, we also signalled our intention to conduct a broader review
of the meter inspections framework in the context of the rollout of smart meters. We
wanted to ensure that our regulatory requirements were proportionate and
necessary to protect consumers’ interests."

Reading the whole lot (which contains a lot of waffle) implies that the rules would be relaxed from the standard licencing conditions for all supplier wef from 1st April 2016

So you really need to look at the specific licencing conditions and any amendments for your own supplier which in this case is British Gas and they have got dispensation to only check the meters once every five years.

Here is the notice confirming changes to the SLC sffective 1st April 2016 https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/system/files/docs/2016/02/notice_of_licence_modifications_to_the_standard_conditions_of_the_electricity_supply_licences.pdf

magyar

Ah but if you read the background to those changes, they are because it considered that Licence Clause 21B went further than that. That clause says:

"The licensee must take all reasonable steps to obtain a meter reading (including any meter reading transmitted electronically from a meter to the licensee or provided by the Customer and accepted by the licensee) for each of its Customers at least once every year.

So basically they're saying if the customer provides their own readings, then there is no need for the supplier to do so, which is sensible. But in this case, the customer (my friend) didn't do that, so they should in fact have done so within the last year.

System

magyar wrote: »

Ah but if you read the background to those changes, they are because it considered that Licence Clause 21B went further than that. That clause says:



So basically they're saying if the customer provides their own readings, then there is no need for the supplier to do so, which is sensible. But in this case, the customer (my friend) didn't do that, so they should in fact have done so within the last year.

Just to be clear, I believe that what you are quoting is the recent change as of 1 Apr 16. Previously all suppliers except for BG had a requirement to read meters once every 2 years. BG had agreed derogation to read once every 5 years.

magyar

Hengus wrote: »

Just to be clear, I believe that what you are quoting is the recent change as of 1 Apr 16. Previously all suppliers except for BG had a requirement to read meters once every 2 years. BG had agreed derogation to read once every 5 years.

No, that's not the same. What changed on 1 Apr 2016 was the obligation for the supplier to physically take a reading themselves every two years.

What has always been in the Licence is the obligation to *obtain* a meter reading once per year. If they receive one from the customer then this fulfils that obligation. But if they don't receive one, they have to use reasonable endeavours to get one.

System

magyar wrote: »

No, that's not the same. What changed on 1 Apr 2016 was the obligation for the supplier to physically take a reading themselves every two years.

What has always been in the Licence is the obligation to *obtain* a meter reading once per year. If they receive one from the customer then this fulfils that obligation. But if they don't receive one, they have to use reasonable endeavours to get one.

I am not saying you are wrong but can you quote the relevant SLC?

magyar

Hengus wrote: »

I am not saying you are wrong but can you quote the relevant SLC?

It is the one I quoted above

"The licensee must take all reasonable steps to obtain a meter reading (including any meter reading transmitted electronically from a meter to the licensee or provided by the Customer and accepted by the licensee) for each of its Customers at least once every year.

Clause 21B(4) from the supply licence
https://epr.ofgem.gov.uk//Content/Documents/Electricity%20Supply%20Standard%20Licence%20Conditions%20Consolidated%20-%20Current%20Version.pdf

System

Ok - but what is the effective date of that Licence? The consultation document that brought about these changes quoted:

1.1. The Gas Supply Standard Licence Condition (SLC) and Electricity Supply SLC 12 place an obligation on gas suppliers5 and electricity suppliers6 respectively to take all reasonable steps to inspect their customers’ meters at least once every two years unless the Authority7 otherwise consents.

1.6. The scope of the electricity metering inspection requires the supplier to take a meter reading and carry out a visual inspection of any metering equipment to assess whether there has been damage to the metering equipment or to any electrical plant or electric line. The inspection checks for any interference that may prevent the meter from registering the quantity of electricity supplied; or deterioration that may affect its safety or proper functioning.

magyar

Hengus wrote: »

Ok - but what is the effective date of that Licence? The consultation document that brought about these changes quoted:

1.1. The Gas Supply Standard Licence Condition (SLC) and Electricity Supply SLC 12 place an obligation on gas suppliers5 and electricity suppliers6 respectively to take all reasonable steps to inspect their customers’ meters at least once every two years unless the Authority7 otherwise consents.

1.6. The scope of the electricity metering inspection requires the supplier to take a meter reading and carry out a visual inspection of any metering equipment to assess whether there has been damage to the metering equipment or to any electrical plant or electric line. The inspection checks for any interference that may prevent the meter from registering the quantity of electricity supplied; or deterioration that may affect its safety or proper functioning.

That change is a bit of a red herring. If you read the Ofgem consultation it says that the Suppliers felt they shouldn't have to read the meter every two years because
- meters are now extremely safe and so there are minimal H&S implications of not doing so and (crucially)
- clause 21B4 *already* gave them an obligation to get a reading every year. (it specifically says they feel this goes further in respect of protecting the customer)

Their point (not an unreasonable one) was that if you have customer readings then you don't need to send people out to physically read it.

So it stands to reason that Clause 21B4 was in effect well before 1 Apr 2016 (and it's referred to in documents far earlier than that).