Tenant damaged property

cyantist

We rent a house to a young couple with 2 children. We got a call from the woman recently to say he beat her up over Christmas and she has kicked him out so going forward it will just be her and the children living there.

He kicked a hole in the front door, broke the fire, punched a hole in the wall and smashed the oven door. We haven’t been able to go and assess everything yet but I imagine we will find other damage as well.

Is there a way to reclaim costs from the guy specifically? As they are both on the tenancy they are both responsible for the damage, but it does seem unfair she has to cover all repair costs when she is now going to be struggling as a single parent.

Also, am I struggling to figure out what proportion of costs should be covered. Am I right that a UPVC door isn’t really something that wears out, so we should ask for the full replacement cost to be covered? What about the fire? Should they be covering full costs of repair, including the 2 visits from a gas fitter?

Thanks

davidmcn

Joint and several liability means you can pursue whichever of them you like. You'll need to find him first, of course...

Lokolo

Is she planning on leaving the property? If not, then it doesn't matter too much* at the moment as she has to return the property in the state it was rented, so she could always fix these items herself before she moves out.

*obviously if there is a hole in the front door this could be a security risk though

You could arrange a new contract for her - 12 months or something, and this increase could then cover some costs over the year. Then after a year you could (if you wanted) reduce it back down again. Obviously this is quite harsh on her though

Arleen

She can sue him for the damages he caused to the place so that you can provide her with a quote for the damages and she can sue him for it. Also, she really should report it to the police.

Guest101

cyantist wrote: »

We rent a house to a young couple with 2 children. We got a call from the woman recently to say he beat her up over Christmas and she has kicked him out so going forward it will just be her and the children living there. - You / she don't get to decide that.

He kicked a hole in the front door, broke the fire, punched a hole in the wall and smashed the oven door. We haven’t been able to go and assess everything yet but I imagine we will find other damage as well. - then you deduct from the deposit or sue the tenant.

Is there a way to reclaim costs from the guy specifically? - yes and no. each tenant is jointly responsible. As they are both on the tenancy they are both responsible for the damage, but it does seem unfair she has to cover all repair costs when she is now going to be struggling as a single parent. - You only have her word that this is what happened, and whilst it's likely to be the case, he would still be able to chase her for the amount you get from him (well you probably wont actually get anything)

Also, am I struggling to figure out what proportion of costs should be covered. Am I right that a UPVC door isn’t really something that wears out, so we should ask for the full replacement cost to be covered? - ofcourse it wear out, just over a much longer period. What about the fire? Should they be covering full costs of repair, including the 2 visits from a gas fitter? - no. you should mitigate your losses. if it's cheaper to replace then that is what you should do.

Thanks

I'd suggest not getting too involved, he'll be back in a week.

Guest101

Arleen wrote: »

She can sue him for the damages he caused to the place so that you can provide her with a quote for the damages and she can sue him for it. Also, she really should report it to the police.

Aside from reporting to the police. No she couldn't sue him as she has not suffered a loss yet.


A quote doesn't mean anything either. In essence he's a tenant and could in theory return and make good the damage today.

cyantist

Thanks David - I didn't know I could specifically pursue just one of them for the costs.

Lokolo she wants to stay in the property - but it currently doesn't have a usable oven (and it was brand new in August as well) and as you say the front door is a security risk. Also we've had to get a gas fitter to come and cap off the supply to the fire as it wasn't safe so even if we don't repair it until she moves out when we can make deductions from the deposit, we've still incurred costs because of him. Also, the deposit isn't much, as the rent is fairly low. The cost of a new front door, repairing the wall, oven and fire is quite a bit more than the deposit we hold and I feel it might be easier to get some of the money to cover repairs while she is there, rather than trying to chase them for money afterwards.

We were considering putting the rent up slightly and using this to cover repairs. I know she would agree to this but as you say it's harsh on her, and while I don't want to be a pushover I'm not completely unfeeling.

However I suspect she will be eligible for quite a bit of help with renting costs now so I don't think she would actually be much worse off if I increased her rent.

Guest101 - why don't I/she get to decide that? Why can't I set up a new tenancy in just her name? They currently are on a periodic tenancy so why can't I give him notice to leave (I guess this would have to be to the current address) and set up a new AST in just her name?
I did worry about him returning, but actually the signs have been there for a long time that she is serious about this. He used to deal with everything and recently she has been getting in contact with us herself a lot with a lot of queries, like can we provide written permission for her to operate her business from home (in case she needed to claim benefits), as well as a statement of all rent payments etc over the last 12 months. It seems obvious now she has been planning on kicking him out for a while.
And we have known for a while he beats her up. We are very friendly with the neighbour (adjoining house, thin walls) and we speak regularly and he has heard all the arguments and seen the bruises. It was the neighbour that saw him damaging the front door as well.
Regarding the wear and tear of longer standing items - how the hell do I calculate this then? Whether he does indeed return in a week or not, I still need to sort a new front door and I need to suggest a reasonable figure for them to pay towards it. Regarding the fire - it definitely won't be cheaper to replace than to repair, especially if we replaced with like for like as it was originally quite expensive.

Guest101

cyantist wrote: »

Thanks David - I didn't know I could specifically pursue just one of them for the costs.

Lokolo she wants to stay in the property - but it currently doesn't have a usable oven (and it was brand new in August as well) and as you say the front door is a security risk. Also we've had to get a gas fitter to come and cap off the supply to the fire as it wasn't safe so even if we don't repair it until she moves out when we can make deductions from the deposit, we've still incurred costs because of him. Also, the deposit isn't much, as the rent is fairly low. The cost of a new front door, repairing the wall, oven and fire is quite a bit more than the deposit we hold and I feel it might be easier to get some of the money to cover repairs while she is there, rather than trying to chase them for money afterwards.

We were considering putting the rent up slightly and using this to cover repairs. I know she would agree to this but as you say it's harsh on her, and while I don't want to be a pushover I'm not completely unfeeling.

However I suspect she will be eligible for quite a bit of help with renting costs now so I don't think she would actually be much worse off if I increased her rent.

Guest101 - why don't I/she get to decide that? - Well you'd need to go through the formal eviction process, including court. Why can't I set up a new tenancy in just her name? - because he's still a legal tenant? They currently are on a periodic tenancy so why can't I give him notice to leave (I guess this would have to be to the current address) and set up a new AST in just her name? - because you can only give notice to both of them, or conversely she could give notice on their behalf. (now that I know it's a periodic tenancy)
I did worry about him returning, but actually the signs have been there for a long time that she is serious about this. - that's not really relevant though, things change and at present there is no legal mechanism to prevent him being there He used to deal with everything and recently she has been getting in contact with us herself a lot with a lot of queries, like can we provide written permission for her to operate her business from home (in case she needed to claim benefits), as well as a statement of all rent payments etc over the last 12 months. It seems obvious now she has been planning on kicking him out for a while. - again that's not really relevant as nothing can stop him returning and in effect forcing entry.
And we have known for a while he beats her up. We are very friendly with the neighbour (adjoining house, thin walls) and we speak regularly and he has heard all the arguments and seen the bruises. It was the neighbour that saw him damaging the front door as well. - police involved?
Regarding the wear and tear of longer standing items - how the hell do I calculate this then? - well you need a reasonable calculation, even a 10-15% discount on replacement value would probably be sufficient. Whether he does indeed return in a week or not, I still need to sort a new front door and I need to suggest a reasonable figure for them to pay towards it. - or she can arrange this herself? Regarding the fire - it definitely won't be cheaper to replace than to repair, especially if we replaced with like for like as it was originally quite expensive.

Avoid having expensive things in rental properties. She's a single mum on benefits, what are the realistic chances of you getting payment?

Arleen

Guest101 wrote: »

Aside from reporting to the police. No she couldn't sue him as she has not suffered a loss yet.


A quote doesn't mean anything either. In essence he's a tenant and could in theory return and make good the damage today.

So you mean that if I will come in to a rental place of yours and kick out a window, the tenant won't be at a loss before end of tenancy? This isn't some wear and tear caused by joint tenant, but intentional destruction of property.

That is why she has to sue him, not the landlord. If she doesn't want the LL to do the repairs, which is fine for her to ask him to carry them out, then she can get quotes from contractors to repair the damages and sue him (assuming it went as described and it can be proven in court).

Skibunny40

Would this be covered under landlord's insurance, or does that only apply when the tenant has actually moved out?

Guest101

Arleen wrote: »

So you mean that if I will come in to a rental place of yours and kick out a window, the tenant won't be at a loss before end of tenancy? This isn't some wear and tear caused by joint tenant, but intentional destruction of property.

That is why she has to sue him, not the landlord. If she doesn't want the LL to do the repairs, which is fine for her to ask him to carry them out, then she can get quotes from contractors to repair the damages and sue him (assuming it went as described and it can be proven in court).

I'll caveat this by saying doors and windows are ofcourse necessary for the safety and security of the property, so in your example it would be reasonable to replace asap. But with that said a board can be placed temporarily over the area.


I'm telling you it makes no difference (assuming you are my tenant renting my property) you can do as you wish, but you must make good any damage.


If you are a stranger attending my property then that would be different.


The tenant could be a window fitter and replace it at next to no cost to themselves in your example.


She cannot sue him with a 'quote', that is the end of the matter. You advising incorrectly isn't helping the OP. There needs to be a proven, mitigated loss, there needs to be pre-action protocols


Yes the Op should replace the front door (or the tenant should) but the rest is more complex