Help - Got PCN from PPC, appeal and got rejected. No POPLA provided.

crabscoot

Hi all,

I have tried appealed with the templates and got reply as follow. Could someone please advice what to do next. I have read all the guides and appreciate if someone can point me to the right directions.

*I am reading through IAS appeal*

Thanks in advance for the reply.

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your letter of appeal against the Parking Charge Notice issued by us on 20.12.2016
Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you we have decided to reject your appeal for the following reasons:

The vehicle was parked on private land that is well signed with bright yellow contractual notices stating that a valid permit must be on clear display at all times to park, see attached.

We have a signed agreement with the landowner which fully entitles us to enforce the notices issued at the site. We are under no obligation to provide you with a copy of this agreement, as it is commercially sensitive, but we will supply the IAS with a copy should you seek independent arbitration of your appeal.

Please be advised that a new Law from 1st October 2012 (part of the Protection of Freedoms Act) changed liability for parking on private land from the driver of the vehicle to the vehicle’s registered keeper, unless the keeper clearly identifies who was driving the car at the time.

The terms and conditions of the parking contract, and all charges, are well advertised throughout the development. By leaving the vehicle parked and unattended without the appropriate permit the driver accepted all of the prevailing terms & conditions of the contract including the charges for breach of that contract.

Please be advised that as we are not subscribers to the Ombudsman scheme we are unable to supply you with a POPLA code. If you wish to seek independent arbitration of your appeal please do so with the IAS, see below.

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure and have a number of options:

1. Pay the Parking Charge Notice at the prevailing price of £60 within 14 days. Please note that after this time you will lose the chance to pay the discounted rate and the full amount of £100 will become payable.

2. If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS). Please be advised that if you opt for independent arbitration of your case and are unsuccessful, the full amount of £100 will become payable. In order to appeal, you will need your parking charge number, your vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued. Appeals must be submitted to the IAS within 21 days of the date of this letter. Please visit website (dot) theias (dot)org for full details.

3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.

The Independent Appeals Service website (dot) theias (dot)org provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of this rejection.

How to Pay:
YOU ARE REQUIRED TO PAY £60 WITHIN 14 DAYS FROM THE ISSUE OF THIS CORRESPONDENCE. CHEQUES/POSTAL ORDERS SHOULD BE CROSSED AND MADE PAYABLE TO:

The UK Parking Patrol Office Ltd and posted to:
Parking Patrol Collections
Office 309, Great Northern House
275 Deansgate, Manchester
M3 4EL

Fruitcake

crabscoot wrote: »

Hi all,

I have tried appealed with the templates and got reply as follow. Could someone please advice what to do next. I have read all the guides and appreciate if someone can point me to the right directions.

*I am reading through IAS appeal*

Thanks in advance for the reply.

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your letter of appeal against the Parking Charge Notice issued by us on 20.12.2016
Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you we have decided to reject your appeal for the following reasons:

The vehicle was parked on private land that is well signed with bright yellow contractual notices stating that a valid permit must be on clear display at all times to park, see attached.

We have a signed agreement with the landowner which fully entitles us to enforce the notices issued at the site. We are under no obligation to provide you with a copy of this agreement, as it is commercially sensitive, but we will supply the IAS with a copy should you seek independent arbitration of your appeal.

Please be advised that a new Law from 1st October 2012 (part of the Protection of Freedoms Act) changed liability for parking on private land from the driver of the vehicle to the vehicle’s registered keeper, unless the keeper clearly identifies who was driving the car at the time.

The terms and conditions of the parking contract, and all charges, are well advertised throughout the development. By leaving the vehicle parked and unattended without the appropriate permit the driver accepted all of the prevailing terms & conditions of the contract including the charges for breach of that contract.

Please be advised that as we are not subscribers to the Ombudsman scheme we are unable to supply you with a POPLA code. If you wish to seek independent arbitration of your appeal please do so with the IAS, see below.

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure and have a number of options:

1. Pay the Parking Charge Notice at the prevailing price of £60 within 14 days. Please note that after this time you will lose the chance to pay the discounted rate and the full amount of £100 will become payable.

2. If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS). Please be advised that if you opt for independent arbitration of your case and are unsuccessful, the full amount of £100 will become payable. In order to appeal, you will need your parking charge number, your vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued. Appeals must be submitted to the IAS within 21 days of the date of this letter. Please visit website (dot) theias (dot)org for full details.

3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.

The Independent Appeals Service website (dot) theias (dot)org provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of this rejection.

How to Pay:
YOU ARE REQUIRED TO PAY £60 WITHIN 14 DAYS FROM THE ISSUE OF THIS CORRESPONDENCE. CHEQUES/POSTAL ORDERS SHOULD BE CROSSED AND MADE PAYABLE TO:

The UK Parking Patrol Office Ltd and posted to:
Parking Patrol Collections
Office 309, Great Northern House
275 Deansgate, Manchester
M3 4EL

They are telling lies. You should read up on what the POFA 2012 actually says to understand this, then complain to your MP and Mrs May.

In order for liability to be transferred from the driver to the keeper, the parking scammers have to comply with the very strict requirements of the POFA 2012. There is no automatic transfer to the keeper, and there is no lawful requirement to tell anyone who the driver was.

You are now in ignore mode as explained in the NEWBIES thread with regards to IPC scam members.

pappa_golf

PS: IPC members do not do POPLa codes

crabscoot

pappa_golf wrote: »

PS: IPC members do not do POPLa codes

Hi pappa golf, I have notice that. What is your advice for me to do now? Continue with appeal or ignore them as fruitcakes comments?

Thanks.

Redx

the NEWBIES sticky thread tells you what to do with any IPC member after an appeal has been turned down , unless you get an official LBC or an official MCOL from Northampton within 6 YEARS in which case come back for help

hint

it begins with the letter I

crabscoot

Redx wrote: »

the NEWBIES sticky thread tells you what to do with any IPC member after an appeal has been turned down , unless you get an official LBC or an official MCOL from Northampton within 6 YEARS in which case come back for help

hint

it begins with the letter I

Hi Redx,

Thanks for your comment. I would assume your hint is
IAS Decisions (IAS = Independent Appeals Service)

I was (currently still) reading through the threat. Thanks for your tips!.

Redx

crabscoot wrote: »

Hi Redx,

Thanks for your comment. I would assume your hint is
IAS Decisions (IAS = Independent Appeals Service)

I was (currently still) reading through the threat. Thanks for your tips!.

or maybe its actually I for IGNORE ?

Coupon-mad

crabscoot wrote: »

Hi Redx,

Thanks for your comment. I would assume your hint is
IAS Decisions (IAS = Independent Appeals Service)

Nope. Not recommended, as we hope you have now read, loud and clear. Don't go there.

crabscoot

Thanks for everyone who replied. I do wish to turn straight into ignore mode,lol.

Just to clarify a few things, as I have too quick to jump into appeal, (I blamed the Christmas mode :-/) I did not wait for the NTK. It was a windscreen ticket. So the point which they have mention regarding POFA 2012, I would assume it is not applicable (yet) as I did not received the NTK. If I did, I will then look into it if they have comply with the following.
" Schedule 4 in the NTK. If the NTK inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full as required on para. 8(2)(b). If the NTK invite the keeper to pass the Notice on to the driver, as required in para. 8(2)(e). If the NTK state that the keeper would become liable for the charge only if the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met in accordance with para. 8(2)(f). If the NTK identify the creditor and specify how and whom the payment or notification to the creditor may be made in para. 8(2)(h)"

In addition to that, I am the leaseholder for the parking bay. I did not mention that I am the leaseholder in my appeal.

My right state in the lease is under right granted are as below.
“with or without cars over the accessway designated by the landlord for vehicles within the estate”
I have read in PePiPoo and parking prankster that the PPO does not have the right to impose the condition of “on condition that permit is displayed”.

Am reading the wrong article and getting confuse or am I on the right track?

Should I email to them to request them to formally issue me a NTK before proceeding further. (As suggested in PePiPoo)

Thanks.

Coupon-mad

In addition to that, I am the leaseholder for the parking bay. I did not mention that I am the leaseholder in my appeal.

My right state in the lease is under right granted are as below.
“with or without cars over the accessway designated by the landlord for vehicles within the estate”
I have read in PePiPoo and parking prankster that the PPO does not have the right to impose the condition of “on condition that permit is displayed”.

Am reading the wrong article and getting confuse or am I on the right track?

You are on the right track, yes indeed, this is the crux of the matter.

I would not ask them to issue a NTK, just wait and see what arrives next and see if they do get the data from the DVLA or not. Then (either way, whatever they send next) you can respond with a Section 10 Notice under the DPA, telling them to cease and desist with processing your data, that you only supplied your name & address for the purpose of an initial appeal and not for them to use for further demands or to share with third parties, debt collectors, etc. Also at that point, state that you have primacy of contract as leaseholder, relying upon the lease which grants prior rights which existed and were enjoyed by residents, long before they infested the car park.

That a right to “use” and access a roadway can reasonably include a right to park was accepted by the court in McClymont v. Primecourt Property Management Limited* [2000] All ER (D) 1871. On the facts, a grant of a right to use a private road included the right to park vehicles.

(*hat tip to IamEmanresu for pointing that one out to me).


Tell them in your next response, that they cannot add a requirement for residents to now display permits (and foist onerous parking charges on people on their own home turf) because access rights and easements allowing vehicles and parking were already granted under the lease. Such a significantly detrimental change would require a formal and agreed lease variation and that would happen 'over your dead body'...etc...! As such, it is clear that the landowner/agent who contracted the parking firm have allowed a situation that amounts to 'derogation from grant' which is unlawful, contrary to the lease and has caused you distress. Copy in their client - managing agent - and warn both parties that you are minded to sue them as jointly and severally liable for the conduct of the parking agent and their data controller, who knew or should have known that there was no reasonable cause to continue to use your personal data, to demand this unwarranted charge.

After that, if they continue to process your data, a little later on in a few weeks/months, you would be in a good position to serve a LBCCC in readiness to join those in 2017 who are planning to fight back (and are already doing so) with claims for DPA data misuse. £750, potentially, for you, by suing the PPC and landowner or their agent. If you prefer to wait till you move out, you have six years to do this.

This is the new PPC fightback.

Also, if they then try a small claim while you have not, you will have laid the groundwork to counter-claim.

crabscoot

Coupon-mad wrote: »

You are on the right track, yes indeed, this is the crux of the matter.

I would not ask them to issue a NTK, just wait and see what arrives next and see if they do get the data from the DVLA or not. Then (either way, whatever they send next) you can respond with a Section 10 Notice under the DPA, telling them to cease and desist with processing your data, that you only supplied your name & address for the purpose of an initial appeal and not for them to use for further demands or to share with third parties, debt collectors, etc. Also at that point, state that you have primacy of contract as leaseholder, relying upon the lease which grants prior rights which existed and were enjoyed by residents, long before they infested the car park.


This is the new PPC fightback.

Also, if they then try a small claim while you have not, you will have laid the groundwork to counter-claim.

Hi Coupanmad,

Thanks for your reply.

Am I correct that I don't need to do anything now and just wait to see if they come back to me with anything.

Currently they have not got my address, I have only appeal through email and all they have is my name and my email address.

I have drafted 2 letters, one for UKPPO and the managing agent. Main used the template I have got it from pepipoo.

I will post it here, if I should reply for comments.

Thanks again.