Carpet and floor fitters problems

RSPC3

We have recently had some vinyl flooring and a carpet fitted by the same company and have had the following issues;

1-guy came, measured and quoted and I picked items and said how I needed the job done on the saturday before xmas- he agreed he would do this.
2-when the fitters turned up they informed me that the vinyl had not arrived (no prior call was made to me to inform of this by anyone) i was just flippantly informed the job would now not be finished until the fololwing Tuesday (when I had family all arriving to stay for xmas-hence wanting the floors done on the saturday!!)
3-original quote for carpet incl a reflective heat barrier to assist with thermal protection which was 3 times the price of the usual underlay (we chose this as it was important to us) and on the day of fitting the fitters bought cheap underlay so I had to call the manager and remind him of the stuff we had ordered....alarm bells ringing!!! If i had not known what I was looking at would it have been a different story?
4-I was now informed by the fitters that some of the floor was not suitable for fitting a carpet and would need to be boarded-which would take them longer......why had the quoter not advised me of this?????
5-first small bathroom vinyl was not sealed, and glue all over the sink and shower kick board-when I called and spoke to the 'boss', it wasnt finished yet and would be put right on the Tuesday!! so we could therefore not finish either bathroom for when my family arrived (i had told them the facts of why i needed it done so quickly)
6-Tuesday came and we were out at work so our decorator let them in and they fitted the vinyl. We came home to a completely out of line diagonally fitted vinyl in our bathroom!!!!

So I texted my complaints to the original quoter guy-so i had his responses in writing- and was basically told to stop moaning, the job had been finished and they had extra boarded with no charge and so what was the problem......(bearing in mind he came to see our house and quote 1 week before and hadnt even mentioned all this extras)I explained we werent paying the agreed quote, and that he should come and see the job if he expected us to pay the full price as it was an absolute joke!
he came and agreed the vinyl was wonky and that they should come back and refit it and that a reduction in price would now be accepted due to the annoyance.He is coming back today as we could not allow them in before (even though he wanted to come friday 23rd december!!!!)due to having family stopping over xmas.
So, we cant finish our bathroom for xmas...........we cant seal anything etc due to having another floor laid.
The lounge carpet now has creases and folds in it and looks appalling...and apparently he said this is normal and it happens!!!! Its NEVER happened before!!!!!!!!
Hes been rude and obnoxious (texts to prove) about the mistakes and offered us £70 off the total price (less than 7%) due to all this......he will not acknowledge that this has caused us not to be able to get anything completed on our house for our guests and in his words 'well its not as if you didnt have a floor down for xmas!!!!.
No acknowledgement of the lounge carpet being wrong
Telling me i should calm down and not get so stressed about the issues!!!
Asking me what I want to pay for the jobs done!!!

I have kept all communications now as Im prepared to take this further....my question, what would it be reasonable to pay these people given the catalogue of poor service, shoddy workmanship and defer on agreement of work done by saturday before xmas?
Im not unreasonable, however I know in my industry if we had failed so badly, we would be charging cost only for materials and nothing else....I want to know my rights?
I was given no written estimate at any point and asked to pay cash (I know, alarm bells should have rang at this time!!!! Im prepared to admit I was stupid in hindsight but we were desperate and had been let down by our usual guy who is fantastic and wanted carpets in for xmas)

andyhop

Mistakes happen . Humans are not machines

I can not fathom why there is always a great rush to fit jobs in before Christmas ? Is the world going to end ? Had you acted with due diligence , rather than a Bull in a China shop you probably wouldn't be in this mess

You need to allow access to rectify , it will be at there discretion if they offer a discount

RSPC3

Dear Andyhop

Im not suggesting people are machines, and Im also not suggesting it was the right choice but please dont judge......I had a very good reason for wanting this xmas to be special for one particular family member as his world was and has ended- and a cold floor boarded lounge would not have been appropriate for him at the time.
As I said we were let down at the last minute and needed a quick fix to make do...I could not have my older relative cold and uncomfortable once we had decided for him to be at home with his family in what was to be his last few days alive.
I have not asked for your judgement but merely am asking for advice on what I should ask for as a discount so please refrain from commenting if you have nothing valuable to add.
They should not have agreed to take the job and complete the work if they couldn't do it.
As a first time member on this site looking for help, you have very seriously put me off bothering so thank you!

glasgowdan

andyhop wrote: »

Mistakes happen . Humans are not machines

I can not fathom why there is always a great rush to fit jobs in before Christmas ? Is the world going to end ? Had you acted with due diligence , rather than a Bull in a China shop you probably wouldn't be in this mess

You need to allow access to rectify , it will be at there discretion if they offer a discount

Classic forum answer; "it's YOUR fault"!

Ignore Andy. The company should get paid zero until the jobs done properly. If they couldn't do it before Xmas they should have said so right at the start and you could then have decided whether to use them or not. As they said they could, you're right to be annoyed when they failed to do so.

IF they finish the job neatly and properly then pay them in full and forget about the inconvenience. Don't part pay them just now and hope they fix it later. The wrinkly carpet is unacceptable too.

Doozergirl

I don't think andyhop has judged you at all.

Right before Christmas is the worst time to do anything and then expect things to be rectified quickly if there is a mistake in the rush. And there clearly was a rush as extra work was undertaken and you won't have been the only person hammering for things before Christmas.

Whatever happens, ultimately, if a job is done, it should be paid for. Mistakes do happen and the owner of the company has to pay for those mistakes and rectify them. If they have offered you additional discount for distress, take it.

I'm not even sure what the problem is now. Anything important is lost in the ranting. You need to address us (and take this as a particular hint in addressing the carpet man) in a clear tone. You do need to calm down. No one needs to use that many exclamation marks. Are you doing that with them?

Is the job finished? What is the matter with it right now?

I highly recommend rewording your OP to something that can be dealt with. Try and imagine that you're on twitter perhaps and trying to say the most important things and cutting out the fluff. This is what you need to send to carpet man.

Act professionally. I appreciate you are a consumer but if you ever have to deal with anyone at work, I am sure you will been over backwards for nice customers, internal or external.

andyhop

You asked where you stood .... i gave you the perspective of a self employed trader with 15yrs delight with the public

I see this day in day out . The public want everything yesterday and at the lowest possible price . You clearly asked for both

Good trades don't scavenge for work, not are they available tommorow , nor do they do discounts for cash

glasgowdan

andyhop wrote: »

You asked where you stood .... i gave you the perspective of a self employed trader with 15yrs delight with the public

I see this day in day out . The public want everything yesterday and at the lowest possible price . You clearly asked for both

Good trades don't scavenge for work, not are they available tommorow , nor do they do discounts for cash

But none of that's relevant in this case. The company said they could do it and they haven't.

Doozergirl

glasgowdan wrote: »

But none of that's relevant in this case. The company said they could do it and they haven't.

It probably is relevant if the priority for a customer is to have something done quickly and cheaply.

That saying holds true involving 'good,cheap and fast'. You can have two, but not all three. There is a case of things being done badly but the OP is muddying it with complaints about them actually trying to do the best by them. As it stands, even if the carpet had been laid correctly, the OP wouldn't be happy.

Tradespeople are human, they do a really difficult job and the state of the world today, with most things available cheaper and at the touch of a button, means that people put increasing pressure on tradespeople to provide the same cake. That cake does not exist. No one decent is self employed and takes on risk to work for minimum wage.

No one can compare trades like they can compare the price and delivery times of a washing machine online, yet many people are prepared to treat them in that way. The person that is cheapest and available tomorrow is not going to be the ideal choice for most people.

What you end up with is customers not happy that the people they are dealing with are human and subject to delays, many out of their own control and yes, mistakes.

Even good trades get treated like they are bad because expectations can be ridiculous. I have had a client complain vociferously that one of my staff left a pint of milk on the side which went bad over a few days while no one was there. At the time of the complaint, the milk had been removed by my staff so there was nothing for me to do. What the complainant didn't mention was that my guy had gone out of his way to go in and deal with a minor request that the client had made into a huge deal during my summer holiday (facebook messaging me at 3am and then using the emergency contact to call out the electrician to put up their new light fittings) when we had specifically agreed that no work was happening on site.

In this case, we either have a minor problem where the OP sets such a tight timeline for themselves and the company where there is no leeway for error. Or we have a really bad company that have overcommited themselves and have poor staff. I think there's a bit of both, personally.

Most people who have problems can articulate themselves on here without appearing hysterical. And that is the best way to rectify a situation.

The OP can withold a chunk of payment until they get a satisfactory outcome. It isn't going to undo delays, but a delay where the company are making an effort to rectify does not warrant a discount. It is down to the company to decide.

The OP needs to concentrate hard on having that carpet laid nicely. The cause needs to be found and it re-done. The best way to get it done is by acting reasonably.

glasgowdan

That saying holds true involving 'good,cheap and fast'. You can have two, but not all three.

You absolutely CAN. I've had several excellent trades during our renovations. All the details you're going into are beside the point. The company SHOULDN'T have said they could do this if they couldn't, whether a one man band, national corp, team of Latvians or a transgender ballerina.

Customers shouldn't be swayed from sticking to their guns and demanding what they were promised and agreed to pay for. I'm a tradesperson, and a couple of times where a customer has felt they've expected something different I've felt mortified at my actions/misunderstanding and sorted things right away.

I don't imagine the OP instantly started hurling abrupt demands at them...sounds more like two bears poking each other. However, the trader should still be professional and sort it out. It's not for the customer to be professional...we all know the general public are daft!

Doozergirl

No one is suggesting that the trader doesn't sort it.

My advice to the OP is the same. It is definitely easier to get what you want if you make it easier for people to give it to you.

RSPC3

Please bear in mind by this point I have been reasonable and asked concisely and reasonably for them to put the issues right.
After over a week of rambled excuses as to why carpets go wrinkly after 3 days of being laid and why vinyl flooring is okay if its laid off centre and wonky, I of course came on here to vent and ask for help and advice, not judgements on what I should and shouldnt have done.
I am well aware of how to deal with a complaint, and having last year had an issue with a decorator, the boss came out, looked at the job and within 3 days corrected it and got paid in full incl a very well worded recommendation on his website.
Thank you for your help and advice Glasgowdan, Im grateful for you agreeing that we can not expect to have to pay for the job until he puts it right.