Joint ownership - changing half the ownership

getmore4less

If brownfield what's the current use class.

VinceOran

Hi G_M,
ideally I would like the whole plot to be sold with the cooperation of the co-owner and then we would split the proceeds. According to the estate agent the value of the whole plot is greater than the sum of two halves if we were to physically split it.

But because he doesn't seem to want to sell, or divide the plot up, I will have to try & find a willing buyer for my half of the title. I know this is probably going to be difficult but will have to give it a go. My original question in the post meant - do I need his agreement to sell my half to someone else? The conclusion I drew from Xylophone's link to a very similar scenario with tenants in common, is that I do need his signature to transfer my part share of the property to someone else.

There is no mortgage & he has reluctantly paid for half the clearance.

getmore4less- Not sure what the current use class is, but it wasn't industrial & is now overgrown. It was a kind of builder's storage site.

G_M

You have still not answered my question:

Who is/was the Executer of your dad's Will (or Administrator of the Estate)?

& following on from that, what action has the Executer taken?
* is the property still registered in dad's name?
* in the Executer's name?
* in your and the friend's joint names?

I think you have a gross misunderstanding of how ownership works.

You do not own half the plot. So you cannot sell half the plot.

You jointly own the whole plot. If you download the Land Registry Title (£3 assuming it is registered land & the Executer has transferred it into your names following Probate) you will find the plot described as one single plot, and with two names against it.

You could split it into two plots, each owneed by one of you, and then sell yours, but

a) it would cost you to create two separate Titles (legal, survey & registration costs), and
b) you'd need his consent to do this

Why do you not simply offer your share to him? It's value seems minimal so you won't be giving much away, and it's annual maintenance cost is equal it's market value you'll actually save money after a year. Then the problem becomes entirely his.

Of course, he'd still have to agree, but since he seems to want to keep it, and you'd be giving it o him for free, he'd be mad to refuse.....

getmore4less

The current use class may give the option to put the land to use so that it is at least not costing money.

Any adjoining properties that may be interested.

round our way unused land seems to get secured with full height boarding/fencing while options are considered.


One plot has been like that for 10+years

Land_Registry

I assume that when you both inherited the land was transferred into your joint names by the executor. As G_M posts you need to clarify that position though.

If you are I assume there is a deed of trust or similar setting out the TIC conditions. If not what makes you TIC?

If that all falls into place then you both jointly own the whole legal title. And any transfer/sale would require you both to be involved/executing the legal deed.

The TIC relates to the beneficial ownership, the shares in the value of the land to put it in the simplest of terms. You can't transfer/sell that share in the way you seem to suggest. But you could both transfer part of the actual land.

If the land has no real value then as suggested both if you transferring the whole to just him seems a logical way forward. But presumably there is something else which is making you explore alternatives as there something in your Father's will perhaps or the TIC arrangement?

VinceOran

Thanks Land Registry...
Originally dad was persuaded by his friend to buy the land with the intention that they developed it together. His friend is a builder who he'd known for many years, it probably seemed like a good idea to him at the time. The solicitor who did the conveyancing of the land when they first acquired it, was also the executor of the will, together with another relative. After dad died the solicitor told me the following relating to the land:

The land had been paid for initially in its entirety by dad, his friend was going to pay dad for his half when he could. At this point the land was held in both their names. A few years went by and the friend still hadn't paid his share and they were no nearer to developing it.
Dad eventually got a bit fed up of the situation so decided he wanted to transfer the land to his sole ownership & the solicitor was under the impression that his friend was in agreement. The friend said that he would sort out the transfer with another solicitor, but as it turned out he never did. So contrary to what dad & his solicitor thought, both names were still on the title at the time of his death. The friend claims he paid for 50% of the purchase and stated that 'dad's solicitor has all the documents'. The solicitor told me that he had seen no evidence that his friend had ever paid anything.

The land was transferred in both our names by the executors. I have seen nothing resembling a deed of trust setting out TIC conditions. I have no idea what dad & his friend agreed to except that they wanted to use the land for residential development had it been suitable.
I've made a bit of an assumption that we are TIC simply because it was included in the will & as I understand it, a joint tenancy can't be willed or am I grossly misunderstanding again?

I would not be happy transferring anything to this character for nil value in light of the picture the solicitor has painted of him, so I'm just trying to find an alternative solution for its disposal.

xylophone

If it had been a joint tenancy the other party as survivor would have owned the whole?

getmore4less

so there is an outstanding debt own to the estate.

looks like the solicitor just gave up on that when the "friend" said they had paid it.

that may be an angle to pursue if there is any documentation to prove it existed and not it was paid.

The solicitor should have recommended a debt agreement where the beneficial interest was retained till paid for.

xylophone

Have you downloaded a copy of the title?

Are there any restrictions? Presumably there were restrictions previously registered?

https://www.barkerevanslaw.co.uk/2015/05/changing-to-tenants-in-common-hidden-dangers/

http://freeconveyancingadvice.co.uk/diy-conveyancing/notices-restrictions-on-title

Land_Registry

Details of their arrangement/agreement inc the will can help demonstrate that they held it as TIC. The assumption is that they are joint tenants unless other evidence exists to prove otherwise.

The registered title is not the definitive proof as to TIC/JT but sometimes you will find that the register refers to a form A restriction - see https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership

The issues around their arrangement and who has paid what etc is something that you would need to get legal advice on. Forcing a sale/transfer would be done through the courts if appropriate