Employment Tribunal Advice Please

k3lvc

Converse20 wrote: »

So. They just sent me a new offer. £15,000. A massive leap from £2000 and this is following me calling them out for giving false information to the tribunal.

Do employers tend to show their hand by raising by so much so early?

Assuming this (and actually the whole story) is true then I'd be snapping their hands off (unless of course your moral compass is set so high that the money isn't an issue)

Converse20

k3lvc wrote: »

Assuming this (and actually the whole story) is true then I'd be snapping their hands off (unless of course your moral compass is set so high that the money isn't an issue)

I wish it was all a lie, then I wouldnt have had 2 years of worry!!

I wish I could say that money isn't an issue and that £15k wouldn't come in very handy. They stated in the email that costs to them would be £25k for the 6 day hearing. And that they would be applying for that should I lose.

Really, would I be stupid not to take the money and to risk a hefty bill. I know how unlikely it is that costs would be awarded, but I really am sick of all of it now.

I would love to be able to say that I turned down the money and went all the way, won and that they changed their ways etc. But really, I'm a non legally trained person going against a massive company's fancy barristers with all of my boss's giving evidence. I would need to cross examine people that I stood on ceremony for as I deemed them so important.
Am I underestimating how difficult that would actually be?

But if they will pay £15k, weeks before the hearing, could that mean I have a good chance of winning and doing all of the above?

And yes. I know they offer money to get rid. But from £2k to £15k in such a short time?

Converse20

bugslet wrote: »

At the risk of repeating myself, maybe they can't be a**** to pay solicitors and barristers and have people away from work. 15k may be worth it to them to get rid of you.

On the other hand maybe they think you are going to get oodles of money so this is saving them.

Employers much like employees tend to have personalities that vary, so it could be either.

The issue of people off work doesn't apply really. Only 2 them are still employed! The rest have left!

I get your point though. Easier if they would need to spend it anyway.

They said that the offer is purely for commercial reasons.

lincroft1710

Take the £15K, you will not have the ordeal of 6 days of cross examination and wondering if your case presentation is as strong as it could be.

annandale

You risk going to tribunal and losing. I'd take the offer

steampowered

Good news to hear about the revised offer.

You should not necessarily take this as an indication that you would win at Tribunal. The company will know that costs orders are only made in a small number of cases, so it may be a commercial settlement.

It is also very common for offers to be increased as hearings approach. It is common for increased settlement offers to be made shortly before the lawyers need to start preparing for the hearing, as that is when the employer's legal costs will start racking up (whether or not they eventually settle).

Of course you may well have a reasonable chance of winning at Tribunal, and you will have to weigh that against the risk of losing.

However do bear in mind that the Tribunal will only pass judgment on your dismissal. The Tribunal won't pass judgment on the employer's general business practices, and the Tribunal can't order the employer to change their ways. As your employer was a bank that is the FCA's job.

I personally would be tempted to negotiate. For example you could consider going back to them offering 20k or 25k plus your Tribunal fees reimbursed. It is also a good idea to make a neutral, agreed reference part of the settlement agreement.

Converse20

steampowered wrote: »

Good news to hear about the revised offer.

You should not necessarily take this as an indication that you would win at Tribunal. The company will know that costs orders are only made in a small number of cases, so it may be a commercial settlement.

It is also very common for offers to be increased as hearings approach. It is common for increased settlement offers to be made shortly before the lawyers need to start preparing for the hearing, as that is when the employer's legal costs will start racking up (whether or not they eventually settle).

Of course you may well have a reasonable chance of winning at Tribunal, and you will have to weigh that against the risk of losing.

However do bear in mind that the Tribunal will only pass judgment on your dismissal. The Tribunal won't pass judgment on the employer's general business practices, and the Tribunal can't order the employer to change their ways. As your employer was a bank that is the FCA's job.

I personally would be tempted to negotiate. For example you could consider going back to them offering 20k or 25k plus your Tribunal fees reimbursed. It is also a good idea to make a neutral, agreed reference part of the settlement agreement.

I will give this a try. A reference would make a big difference to me and is something that I have asked for and that they haven't offered.

Are they likely to take this offer off the table?

I really do feel positive about this. I feel like I'm being taken seriously. In the later (sent by email) in which they made the settlement offer, they responded to the points in my letter and the couldn't justify their actions. They obviously said that I was fairly dismissed, and in a roundabout way agreed that I have 2 years service, but couldn't justify why they stated the opposite to the tribunal!

annandale

I'd be looking to speak to a solicitor to help you negotiate a reference. Compromise agreement if you like with the offer theyve put on the table. It shouldn't cost much and it might be more effective than trying to do it yourself

jobbingmusician

I agree - I would be tempted to take the £15k, but as part of a compromise agreement* which included the costs of the solicitor to negotiate the reference for you and oversee the agreement.

*You need independent legal advice for a CA to be valid, if I recall correctly. It is normal for the employer to pay for this.

I would suggest that when asking for the reference, you suggest some things you would like to be included, such as 'Ms x's work was always of an excellent standard, and she left our employ by mutual agreement in [insert date] at a time when we were cutting back on staff. [or whatever neutral reason is acceptable to them]

Crazy_Jamie

Converse20 wrote: »

Are they likely to take this offer off the table?

It's possible but it's not likely. We don't know what your offer was, but it seems likely that this has at least signalled an intention on their part to make a concerted effort to settle this case. In that respect there is unlikely to be any harm in trying to negotiate further; if the £15,000 is their final offer they'll be quick to tell you.

Beyond that, steampowered's post contains good advice that you should take heed of. You should avoid falling into the trap of thinking that an offer like that means that you're going to win at trial. It doesn't necessarily mean that at all. The reality is that none of us here knows how strong your case is or its likely value if you win, so on the one hand it is difficult for any of us to say whether you should accept the offer or not, but it certainly shouldn't be taken as a sign either that you'll win at the Tribunal or that you will get more than that if you do win.

_annandale wrote:

I'd be looking to speak to a solicitor to help you negotiate a reference. Compromise agreement if you like with the offer theyve put on the table. It shouldn't cost much and it might be more effective than trying to do it yourself

_jobbingmusician wrote:

I agree - I would be tempted to take the £15k, but as part of a compromise agreement* which included the costs of the solicitor to negotiate the reference for you and oversee the agreement.

*You need independent legal advice for a CA to be valid, if I recall correctly. It is normal for the employer to pay for this.

I would suggest that when asking for the reference, you suggest some things you would like to be included, such as 'Ms x's work was always of an excellent standard, and she left our employ by mutual agreement in [insert date] at a time when we were cutting back on staff. [or whatever neutral reason is acceptable to them]

You don't need a pay a solicitor to negotiate a reference. Most employers are willing to include a reference with an agreed settlement in practice. That reference is usually neutral, in that it records the dates that you worked and the position(s) that you held. It is possible to negotiate wording beyond that, and there's nothing to stop you trying for that, but it's relatively unusual for a company to go that far. Either way I don't see why you'd need to pay someone to help you with it.

Equally, settlement agreements have standard terms, and you can Google what they are (for example, generally you'll find a clause that the settlement is in full and final settlement of all claims except unknown personal injury and pension claims, a confidentiality clause, sometimes an anti slagging clause, and sometimes a clause that explicitly states that you'll need to pay the money back if you breach the agreement). You may feel more secure in instructing a solicitor to check over the terms of the agreement to make sure everything is in order, but I wouldn't necessarily say that it is essential.

Just so we're clear, I'm not trying to down play the use of lawyers in employment litigation. My feelings are more based on the fact that the OP has already come this far without instructing a solicitor, and to my mind there isn't anything inherent in negotiating a reference or finalising a settlement agreement that means that they should instruct one at this stage. Of course if the OP would prefer to seek legal advice, that is their choice.

EDIT: I managed to gloss over the asterisk in the above post, which you would have thought would be quite difficult given that it's there to be seen. But Undervalued (in the post below mine) is right; you don't need legal advice for to settle Tribunal proceedings.