SAR (Subject Access Request) advice, please?

VisionMan

Bunny_Gee wrote: »

I know that my telecommunications provider has been overcharging me but not by how much and over what period.

So I sent them a SAR

Why do you think this will help you and what do you hope to achieve by it?

Bunny_Gee wrote: »

but they have replied with a form for me to fill in (example was attached but MSE won't let me link to it, as a new member of the forum).

They say I must complete it and return it to their "Legal Team", directly.

1) Do I have to complete their (somewhat limiting) form or can I insist they respond to my formal SAR, as earlier provided, the receipt of which they have acknowledged?

Yes, you have to complete the form as such a request is/becomes a legal matter under the Data Protection Act. As such, things need to documented.

Bunny_Gee wrote: »

2) Is it for me to approach their legal team or is it for them to pass the request over to it?

Just return it to them. Legal don't deal with customers as that is not their function.

VisionMan

Xbigman wrote: »

It sounds like VM are trying to avoid the cost of sending you everything by asking you if you want something specific.

A SAR is actually a request for every single piece of data contained within the requested file or account. Even the police have to complete one.

Bunny_Gee

Thank you, VisionMan.

I'm confused by your responses as they appear to contradict each other.

In the first, you say I have to complete the form.

In the second, you say a SAR must be responded to and you quote the police as not being immune.

If that's the case and my original SAR has been correctly submitted then I am confused as to why I should be obliged to complete an, in-house constructed, form for such which will merely be a repeat of the SAR information I have already submitted.

I have submitted SAR's to other organisations, previously, but have never been asked to complete a form, designed by the recipient, prior to their compliance so I ask the question as, perhaps unbeknown to me, the rules governing SAR requests has been recently changed with the result that recipient organisations are now entitled to have such forms completed rather than they complete the forms, themselves (if such is not considered a pretty time consuming and futile exercise), from the information contained within said SAR.

Does anyone have a definitive answer for me, please?

Thank you.:)

Castle

Bunny_Gee wrote: »

Does anyone have a definitive answer for me, please?

Thank you.:)

Here's the ICO's guidance:-(forms are not compulsory)
https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/principle-6-rights/subject-access-request/

donglemouse

according to the ico you should have included the following in your request and I am quoting from their website:

a) your full name, address and contact telephone number;

b) any information used by the organisation to identify or distinguish you from others of the same name (account numbers, unique ID's etc);

c) details of the specific information you require and any relevant dates, for example:

- your personnel file;
- emails between ‘A’ and ‘B’ (between 1/6/11 and 1/9/11);
- your medical records (between 2006 & 2009) held by Dr ‘C’ at ‘D’ hospital;
- CCTV camera situated at (‘E’ location) on 23/5/12 between 11am and 5pm;
- copies of statements (between 2006 & 2009) held in account number xxxxx"

https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/personal-information/

you could report the company to the ICO after 40 days from your request, on the basis that they didn't respond to your request in time, but the company may argue to the ICO you didn't provide sufficient information in your request so the 40 day clock hasn't started

only the ICO could give you a definitive answer how they would judge your particular case

k3lvc

What is it with people expecting companies to bend over and provide all details so customers can use the evidence to challenge them.


Unless I'm reading it wrong then OP is using SAR as a fallback as he/she hasn't kept accurate records of agreement and subsequent charges for a contract they've signed and now expect said company to do donkey work to provide evidence of errors.


This is the latest of a number of similar posts where an OP expects to put in little/no effort i.e. form filling, refining request etc so company can incur costs and then subsequently be challenged with the evidence


IMHO bad form OP

Bunny_Gee

k3lvc wrote: »

What is it with people expecting companies to bend over and provide all details so customers can use the evidence to challenge them.


Unless I'm reading it wrong then OP is using SAR as a fallback as he/she hasn't kept accurate records of agreement and subsequent charges for a contract they've signed and now expect said company to do donkey work to provide evidence of errors.


This is the latest of a number of similar posts where an OP expects to put in little/no effort i.e. form filling, refining request etc so company can incur costs and then subsequently be challenged with the evidence


IMHO bad form OP

I'm not sure who you represent but you have made some inaccurate assumptions.

I have already stated I know I have been overcharged and the firm acknowledges this fact.

We have an issue in defining how much I have been overcharged by and for what period.

I have spoken with them and they are being unhelpful, in my opinion.

They have verbally refused to check back to see how much they have overcharged me by and have said I must tell them how much they have overcharged me and provide supporting evidence or they will refund me a sum they arrive at, arbitrarily.

I am simply complying with their request that I provide them with evidence by SAR'ing them to provide me with the tools to do that and I will DO THEIR WORK in calculating the sums they agree they have overcharged me by.

How am I being unhelpful?

Why do you think they should not be subject to incurring costs in providing evidence when they have happily and repeatedly overcharged me (and very likely a great many others in similar circumstances)?

Why, given their usurious practises in obtaining large profits for their shareholders and correspondingly high wage bills and bonuses for themselves, at the cost of their clients (many of which may suffer hardship in funding the firms' executives happy lifestyles) should they NOT bear costs and inconvenience in putting such right when found out and challenged?

If I stole money from them, do you think I would not be challenged and possibly punished?

What kind of a human being are you, if you side with the perpetrator rather than the victim in such matters?

Please do enlighten us.

IMHO you need your head examined.

[Deleted User]

k3lvc wrote: »

What is it with people expecting companies to bend over and provide all details so customers can use the evidence to challenge them.


Unless I'm reading it wrong then OP is using SAR as a fallback as he/she hasn't kept accurate records of agreement and subsequent charges for a contract they've signed and now expect said company to do donkey work to provide evidence of errors.


This is the latest of a number of similar posts where an OP expects to put in little/no effort i.e. form filling, refining request etc so company can incur costs and then subsequently be challenged with the evidence


IMHO bad form OP

Just part of modern life I'm afraid, people want everybody else but themselves to be responsible for their actions.

Forums such as this one also seems to engender a belief in people that everybody should side with them against the big bad companies and if you don't then just watch the abuse flow.

k3lvc

Bunny_Gee wrote: »

I'm not sure who you represent but you have made some inaccurate assumptions.

I have already stated I know I have been overcharged and the firm acknowledges this fact.

We have an issue in defining how much I have been overcharged by and for what period.

I have spoken with them and they are being unhelpful, in my opinion.

They have verbally refused to check back to see how much they have overcharged me by and have said I must tell them how much they have overcharged me and provide supporting evidence or they will refund me a sum they arrive at, arbitrarily.

I am simply complying with their request that I provide them with evidence by SAR'ing them to provide me with the tools to do that and I will DO THEIR WORK in calculating the sums they agree they have overcharged me by.

How am I being unhelpful?

Why do you think they should not be subject to incurring costs in providing evidence when they have happily and repeatedly overcharged me (and very likely a great many others in similar circumstances)?

Why, given their usurious practises in obtaining large profits for their shareholders and correspondingly high wage bills and bonuses for themselves, at the cost of their clients (many of which may suffer hardship in funding the firms' executives happy lifestyles) should they NOT bear costs and inconvenience in putting such right when found out and challenged?

If I stole money from them, do you think I would not be challenged and possibly punished?

What kind of a human being are you, if you side with the perpetrator rather than the victim in such matters?

Please do enlighten us.

IMHO you need your head examined.

As a 'victim' you should be able to prove your claim - very simple - charges made less original agreement is overcharge. Your lack of records is pushing you down the entitlement route which, in time, will make it harder for those that need to use SAR for it's proper purpose. I'm assuming you do have your contract/agreement and ongoing records of the charges made ?


As a newbie I'm supposed to be nice to you yet you can hurl abuse back :rotfl:


Given you seem to be in the minority in your expectations of getting the answer you want here then I too am out

Bunny_Gee

k3lvc wrote: »

As a 'victim' you should be able to prove your claim - very simple - charges made less original agreement is overcharge. Your lack of records is pushing you down the entitlement route which, in time, will make it harder for those that need to use SAR for it's proper purpose. I'm assuming you do have your contract/agreement and ongoing records of the charges made ?


As a newbie I'm supposed to be nice to you yet you can hurl abuse back :rotfl:


Given you seem to be in the minority in your expectations of getting the answer you want here then I too am out

So you decline to explain your earlier contradictions in providing a definitive.

You also seem of the incorrect opinion that I am legally obliged to retain records of bills received rather than the fact of the matter being that the supplier must keep copies of bills provided. Very, very poor advice, I conclude.

I do not recall "hurling" "abuse" at anyone, but note your snide alluding to such.

If I'm in a minority, such must be diametrically opposed to the apparent majority who know now't but spout lots, of which you are clearly a leading light.

Finally, you bottle it by falling back on TV catchphrase a la "You're Fired" (yawn!!) as you leave (be careful the door doesn't catch you on the way out).

Question still unanswered.

Such a simple one, too (for someone who knows rather than a mere armchair-lawyer's speculation and opinion).

Am I obliged to complete and submit this telephone provider's in-house produced SAR form, despite me having already submitted a properly worded SAR?

A definitive reply would be gratefully received.