Photocopied will

Biggles

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

Why would it need to be very recent?

Because it isn't a will, only a copy. And no one knows why the original can no longer be found.

If it were recent, it could be argued that it still represented her wishes. As it apparently isn't recent, and no one knows her wishes, that couldn't be argued and I imagine intestacy rules will apply.

Yorkshireman99

no1catman wrote: »

Is the copy, a copy of the signed will, or a copy before signing?

If the former, surely it's valid, if not it's just a guide - hence the need for the original.
If it is someone's intention to cancel an old will, again surely normal to replace by a new one with a later date.

A copy is not valid unless there are particular circumstances for example if proof that it was destroyed or lost accidentally. Subject to adequate proof then the court might be willing to declare it valid but it is not a foregone conclusion. The starting point for the OP as executor is to make extensive inquiries to see if the original or a later will can be found.

securityguy

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

A copy is not valid unless there are particular circumstances for example if proof that it was destroyed or lost accidentally. Subject to adequate proof then the court might be willing to declare it valid but it is not a foregone conclusion. The starting point for the OP as executor is to make extensive inquiries to see if the original or a later will can be found.

Or to walk away from the whole mess and have nothing to do with it, of course. Being named as an executor on a valid will doesn't compel you to be an executor. Being named as an "executor" on a photocopy of what may or not be a will even less so.

If the other putative executors want to do something about it they can, but it's going to be a hard road, and if the OP doesn't care either way (either it goes to his mother, which he's fine with, or to him, which presumably he's equally fine with) he could just leave them to it. He will not even need to formally renounce, as he's not been appointed an executor by a valid will. If the original is found, he becomes an executor and can decide his position from here.

The mother could just apply for a grant of representation (as there is no valid will) and leave it to the other putative executors to object if they so wish. The OP presumably doesn't wish.

Biggles

securityguy wrote: »

Or to walk away from the whole mess and have nothing to do with it, of course. Being named as an executor on a valid will doesn't compel you to be an executor. Being named as an "executor" on a photocopy of what may or not be a will even less so.

If the other putative executors want to do something about it they can, but it's going to be a hard road, and if the OP doesn't care either way (either it goes to his mother, which he's fine with, or to him, which presumably he's equally fine with) he could just leave them to it. He will not even need to formally renounce, as he's not been appointed an executor by a valid will. If the original is found, he becomes an executor and can decide his position from here.

The mother could just apply for a grant of representation (as there is no valid will) and leave it to the other putative executors to object if they so wish. The OP presumably doesn't wish.

Exactly. As there is no will, there is no executor. So the next of kin (your mother) should apply for a grant of representation. End of story, almost certainly.

Yorkshireman99

Biggles wrote: »

Exactly. As there is no will, there is no executor. So the next of kin (your mother) should apply for a grant of representation. End of story, almost certainly.

Easier said than done. The applicant will have to declare that there is no will and that full and proper inquiries have been made. Not declaring the existence of the copy would be unwise.Also the people who have possession of the copy may well make an objection. The cost could get seriously out of hand.

Mojisola

Mae66 wrote: »

My aunt died earlier this month, leaving an estate of about £220,000, and the only will found is a photocopy, which names myself and two other unrelated people as the joint executors and beneficiaries. We haven't been able to locate the original.

Under intestacy, the estate would pass to my aunt's sister (my mother), which would be fine by me, but obviously not to the other two potential beneficiaries.

I'm dreading having to get involved in a long and expensive legal dispute.

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

Not declaring the existence of the copy would be unwise.

Also the people who have possession of the copy may well make an objection.

The cost could get seriously out of hand.

There's a choice between taking this through the courts and a lot of money being spent out or the four people involved coming to a fair compromise and sharing the money out through a deed of variation of the intestacy rules.

(That's assuming that the original will can't be found. Has anyone talked to the witnesses yet to see what they know about the original will?)

securityguy

"The applicant will have to declare that there is no will and that full and proper inquiries have been made."

Will they? They will need to fill in form PA1.

http://formfinder.hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/pa1-eng.pdf

Could you point to the bit where they need to undertake "full and proper inquiries"? Question 3.1 "Did the person who has died leave a will?" has two, and exactly two, answers: "Yes, please provide the original document(s) with your application" and "No". There's no "additional information" section, either at this point or anywhere else on the form.

"Not declaring the existence of the copy would be unwise"

To whom and how should they declare it?

Guidance notes PA1A amplifies this: "Please enclose the original will and any codicils with your application (not a photocopy)." (emphasis in original).

"Also the people who have possession of the copy may well make an objection."

At their expense, yes.

PennyForThem_2

I have a photocopy of will but the original is held by solicitor. Colleague had a will held by Bank (well known bank). Wanted to change it. Bank had 'lost it'.

So I think the lesson here is to check with holder of original that they still have it.

(Bank paid for a total rewrite of will by solicitor of colleague's choice - and so it should!)

Biggles

PennyForThem wrote: »

So I think the lesson here is to check with holder of original that they still have it.

That is, actually, the point of this thread: nobody knows who has (or had) the original.

getmore4less

Write on a photocopy where the original is or who will know if it gets moved.