Storage heater or small electric heater? Best tariff?

Yirara

I spent some time in my new flat (still waiting for furniture to arrive) and looked at the heating options there, and what electricity tariff is running.

I don't know what the tariff is called or whether the displayed tariff is with VAT but the PAYG meter key reads Scottish Power, and displays the following tariffs:
16.73 pence/kwh
7.51 pence/kwh
approx. 26.1 standing charge

I will most likely only need a heater in the living room, and of course only for part of the year. The flat is well insulated and feels fairly warm even without any heating on. Might feel different though once I sit on the sofa. I'm not sure how much power the heater has, nor if it automatically switches to charging once the cheaper tariff kicks in (how does that work?), thus this is all a bit guess work. It's a fairly big heater though. It looks like this one: http://www.thegreenage.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Storage-heater.jpg

In my old flat I spent about 60/month on gas in the winter, otherwise the inside temperature would drop below 13C within a very short time. Thus spending 2/day on the heater would not shock me. But it should certainly not be more.
Electricity rate in the old flat was at 14.86kwh, standing charge 26.1p and I spent about 30/month on electricity.

Thus options:
- Stick with this tariff?
- Try to get a split tariff contract that might be cheaper?
- Get rid of the split tariff, use an overall cheaper one, in combination with a small fan heater or any other option available (are there better options in absence of gas)? Living room is about 18m^2, cavity wall with insulation, double glazing.

I tried playing with comparison websites, but as I have no idea how much energy I'll be using with this storage heater in the end, and whether I'll use it and to what extend it's impossible to compare for now.

The landlord is considering replacing this storage heater in the summer for a more modern one, but it's not certain yet.

Owain_Moneysaver

nor if it automatically switches to charging once the cheaper tariff kicks in (how does that work?),

There'll be a timeswitch or radio-controlled teleswitch next to, or part of, the meter, which controls the tariff change and supplies power to the off-peak consumer unit which supplies the storage heater.

There should also be an off-peak supply to the bottom immersion heater, or a timeswitch controller for the immersion heater

In most cases storage heating and off-peak water heating is the cheapest mainstream option for all-electric properties. Use as much electricity as you can during the off-peak period eg washing machines, tumble dryers.

If its a rented property your landlord should supply instructions on how to use the heating.

[Deleted User]

Hi,

well that's you in now, is this thread dead?

As it's about half way through winter now just work with what you've got.

Make sure heater is on at fuse box and wall switch, turn input dial to 4, for now, and keep output dial closed.

If timer at correct time, then heater should start heating tonight at about 11/12, on cheap rate, might get a bit of a smell if not been used for some time.

You wont really notice heat until tomorrow and depending on ambient temperature you might want to adjust input up/down, I keep an eye on weather forecast and set input accordingly night before.

You can use output to release more heat, if needed, though remember to close down at bedtime or when flat not occupied to save heat.

Take regular meter readings, daily if you want, and keep track of your usage and cost.

Edit: You don't need to switch on/off at wall each day.

Yirara

Owain_Moneysaver wrote: »

There'll be a timeswitch or radio-controlled teleswitch next to, or part of, the meter, which controls the tariff change and supplies power to the off-peak consumer unit which supplies the storage heater.

There should also be an off-peak supply to the bottom immersion heater, or a timeswitch controller for the immersion heater

In most cases storage heating and off-peak water heating is the cheapest mainstream option for all-electric properties. Use as much electricity as you can during the off-peak period eg washing machines, tumble dryers.

If its a rented property your landlord should supply instructions on how to use the heating.

The landlord doesn't know how this heater works. They own a huge number of flats all across town, and the whole country by the look of it. All new appliances have manuals, but not this old heater. I contacted the manufacturer though and hope to get some information and a manual from them.

I do wonder whether this heater is the best way to heat my living room. If I assume it's a 3.4 or 2.5kw heater then charging it up for 7 hours over night would cost
3.4: 1.79
2.5: 1.31
provided the unit price the meter gives me is incl. vat.

If I use a 2kw fan heater (not sure if that's enough) at the previous flat electricity rate then running it for 3.5hrs in the evening would cost me 1.04 per day, plus I'd be able to easily add a bit of heat on not so warm evenings where needed while I'd otherwise need to run the storage heater all night to get a bit of warmth during those transitional periods. On the other hand I also need to take weekends into account where I don't go out during day time.

As pretty much all appliances would run during daytime/evening and not at night, my general electricity bill would also go up on this tariff. I mean, I cannot run my tv, fridge, shower and cooker from a battery that I power up at night. I don't think running the washing machine and dryer every 1.5-2 weeks at night rates would really offset that. Plus I don't think it has a timer build in, and timer plugs that don't make a noise would need to be in use for a long time to offset the purchasing costs.

Or do I get something wrong here? After all, this is a money saving forum

Yirara

[Deleted User] wrote:

Hi,

well that's you in now, is this thread dead?

As it's about half way through winter now just work with what you've got.

Make sure heater is on at fuse box and wall switch, turn input dial to 4, for now, and keep output dial closed.

If timer at correct time, then heater should start heating tonight at about 11/12, on cheap rate, might get a bit of a smell if not been used for some time.

You wont really notice heat until tomorrow and depending on ambient temperature you might want to adjust input up/down, I keep an eye on weather forecast and set input accordingly night before.

You can use output to release more heat, if needed, though remember to close down at bedtime or when flat not occupied to save heat.

Take regular meter readings, daily if you want, and keep track of your usage and cost.

Edit: You don't need to switch on/off at wall each day.

I couldn't find the old thread using my phone. But the question has shifted from 'what is this' to 'what's the best way to heat my flat' now anyway.

Yes, I will need to run the heater for a while to find out what it really costs once I've moved in (my furniture is still in transit and won't arrive until the new year).

I'm playing a bit with comparison websites. Using my previous tariff in a completely different region of the country and comparing it to fixed price tariffs of the same usage here in Edinburgh, then I could already save about 100/year.

Taking gas, and gas standing charges out of the equation and adding this heater makes things somewhat more complicated. Assuming this heater runs at 3.4kw for half of the year on a split tariff I would probably still be able to save some money with a different plan. Monthly costs would then be approx. 65/month if I kept the payg meter and 56/month if I switched to a direct debit fixed price tariff, assuming an electricity company would let me switch (rental contract mentions I can change to anything and not restore original meter when moving out).

[Deleted User]

Hi,

'I do wonder whether this heater is the best way to heat my living room. If I assume it's a 3.4 or 2.5kw heater then charging it up for 7 hours over night would cost
3.4: 1.79
2.5: 1.31
provided the unit price the meter gives me is incl. vat.'

even though your heater is 'on', it doesn't charge up for 7 hours, it will click on/off depending on input setting and heat loss, thus, keep output closed as much as possible.

As I suggested in earlier reply take readings for a week or so and track usage.

[Deleted User]

Hi,

here's a bit of reading for you.

Yirara

[Deleted User] wrote:

Hi,

'I do wonder whether this heater is the best way to heat my living room. If I assume it's a 3.4 or 2.5kw heater then charging it up for 7 hours over night would cost
3.4: 1.79
2.5: 1.31
provided the unit price the meter gives me is incl. vat.'

even though your heater is 'on', it doesn't charge up for 7 hours, it will click on/off depending on input setting and heat loss, thus, keep output closed as much as possible.

As I suggested in earlier reply take readings for a week or so and track usage.

Yep, will certainly do that. There must be something I don't understand with these heaters... I read comments online from people running one such heater at 5/day or more. If the heater potentially doesn't charge up for 7 hours then how is this possible? Unless the heater loses the stored energy right away again.

Back to the 3.4kw example: Is this the amount of heat it can store, or radiate per time unit? That would make a difference if it lost most heat immediately again. If the latter was true then calculators such as this: https://www.sust-it.net/storage-heater-energy-calculator.php?fu=8&cu=uk would be pretty useless.

[Deleted User]

Hi,

they are 'storage' heaters, with heating elements and 'bricks'.

Richie-from-the-Boro

I assume the £60pm is a VAT paid £720pa on a two counter E7 tariff. So what is your [copy&paste] exact tariff name ?. Are you on an e-account cheapest credit meter tariff ? Do you pay by DD and supply monthly meter readings and did you photograph as evidence and supply your readings the minute you registered your account and your MPAN in your own name ?

NSH come in 4 types 0.8 /1.7 / 2.5 / 3.4, each has between 9-16 bricks charged by 1-4 850W heating elements and vary in width only, each brick holds about just short of 3kW when fully charged. 10 years ago the domestic norm was 17-18 °C, now its 19-21°C. You need enough cheap-rate stored heat in your main living area to feel comfortable for most of the winter without using the much more expensive day-rate heat.

Your mix of cheap kWh and expensive kWh should be as close as you can get to 50-50% @ about 4k kWh of day rate and 4k kWh of night rate, a total annual mixed consumption of 8k kWh. Assuming 70% of the total night rate being consumed in the winter period.

Now if you lived in an 80's regulation build, refurbished with typical current double glazed to a B-C EPC rating and using bog standard automatic model cheepo stoarge heaters @ todays E7 tariff rates it would cost in the region of £800 annually.

You want an average of 21°C in the winter period and you own one big 3.4kW and one middle sized 2.5kW NSH thats a total of 23.8 + 17.8kWh or 41.6kWh of stored heat. That 41.6kWh of stored heat is available for release over the next 17 day hours or the equivalent of a 2.44kW fire at full output for those 17 hours.

Of course there are days when you need complimentary extra heat now, and days when your store of heat is never fully depleted, the NSH has an input and an output if you input enough cheap stuff during the 17 night hours to keep you comfortable without using the output knob at all you have done your job the cheapest way you can.

NOTE : - the photo from frugalmacdugal is a £230 mid-range 2.5kW, 3x850W element NSH.

Yirara

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

I assume the £60pm is a VAT paid £720pa on a two counter E7 tariff. So what is your [copy&paste] exact tariff name ?. Are you on an e-account cheapest credit meter tariff ? Do you pay by DD and supply monthly meter readings and did you photograph as evidence and supply your readings the minute you registered your account and your MPAN in your own name ?

I don't know what tariff I'm on at the moment. ScottishPower is not telling me, and the above prices are from the PAYG meter installed for my flat. I've not moved in yet though as I'm waiting for my furniture to arrive. Once I found out how 'useful' the living room heater is, and whether it works I'll look at a proper tariff.

NSH come in 4 types 0.8 /1.7 / 2.5 / 3.4, each has between 9-16 bricks charged by 1-4 850W heating elements and vary in width only, each brick holds about just short of 3kW when fully charged. 10 years ago the domestic norm was 17-18 °C, now its 19-21°C. You need enough cheap-rate stored heat in your main living area to feel comfortable for most of the winter without using the much more expensive day-rate heat.

Your mix of cheap kWh and expensive kWh should be as close as you can get to 50-50% @ about 4k kWh of day rate and 4k kWh of night rate, a total annual mixed consumption of 8k kWh. Assuming 70% of the total night rate being consumed in the winter period.

What do you mean by 50/50? All 24/7 electricity in the old flat was below 2000kwh. Washing machine and fridge are newer than in my old flat and if I don't need an additional heater I guess it should be fairly similar. The storage header, if I use it on full power for half a year might come down to about 4000kwh.

Now if you lived in an 80's regulation build, refurbished with typical current double glazed to a B-C EPC rating and using bog standard automatic model cheepo stoarge heaters @ todays E7 tariff rates it would cost in the region of £800 annually.

90s building with insulated walls and double glazing, B-rating.

You want an average of 21°C in the winter period and you own one big 3.4kW and one middle sized 2.5kW NSH thats a total of 23.8 + 17.8kWh or 41.6kWh of stored heat. That 41.6kWh of stored heat is available for release over the next 17 day hours or the equivalent of a 2.44kW fire at full output for those 17 hours.

I have one big heater in the living room. The living room is about 18m^2. There's a small heater in the hall and another one in the bedroom, but I generally prefer to sleep in unheated rooms. It's just more comfy for me. The doors feel fairly solid (though I know they are the weak spot) and close properly.

Of course there are days when you need complimentary extra heat now, and days when your store of heat is never fully depleted, the NSH has an input and an output if you input enough cheap stuff during the 17 night hours to keep you comfortable without using the output knob at all you have done your job the cheapest way you can.
NOTE : - the photo from frugalmacdugal is a £230 mid-range 2.5kW, 3x850W element NSH.

That's what I really wonder: how much can I actually heat my room with it. And wouldn't it be cheaper in the end to use an electric fan heater or a different means of heating only when I'm at home on a cheaper 24/7 tariff.

I'll certainly do some tests with the storage heater once I've moved in. Find out whether it actually works properly, how well it heats and for how long, and if the night tariff gets triggered properly. The landlord will exchange this heater in the summer most likely.