POPLA Appeal Form

razil

Thank you for your help I have now submitted the Appeal I'll post the outcome when I receive it.

razil

UPDATE:

Hi I have today received a reply from ECP and have 7 days to reply.
Their reply is pasted below. They have included pictures etc


Euro Car Parks would like to respond to the following
• Section 18.3 of the British Parking Association’s (BPA) code of practice explains that signs “must be conspicuous and legible and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand. Signage on site is clear, when parking on private land it is the driver’s responsibility to read the signage displayed and parked accordance with the terms and conditions as stated.
• Euro Car Parks have provided photographic evidence showing that the appellant remained at the site for one hours and eighteen minutes (Figure 1)
• The signage clearly states the terms and conditions of parking, all drivers are required to purchase a valid pay and display ticket for the duration of their stay. Euro Car Parks can confirm that the signage on site clearly dispalys the tariff at Derby Siddals Road (Figure 2)
• Signage on site is clear, when parking on private land it is the drivers responsibility to read the signage displayed and parked accordance with the terms and conditions as stated
• The signage clearly states the terms and conditions of parking, all drivers are required to purchase a valid pay and display ticket for the duration of their stay.
• Signage is visble when entering and inside of the car park and when entering private land it would be the driver’s responsibility to read the terms and conditions and adhere to them.
• As mentioned before it is the driver’s responsibility to read and adhere to the terms and conditions displayed.
• Euro Car Parks can confirm the signage on site is clearly and states it’s a 24 hour pay and display car park. It is the drivers to read the terms and conditions displayed and to ensure payment for park is made to cover the full duration of his stay on site.
• As well as two pay and display machines on site; there is the option to Pay By Phone
• The driver had already paid for a pay and display ticket, therefore the driver was fully aware of the terms and conditions of parking
• Euro Car Parks can confirm that the notice has been issued under contract law – the signage on site is clear and when parking on private land it is the responsibility of the driver to read aforementioned signage and park in accordance with the T&CS displayed

The terms and conditions of parking are clearly displayed on the signage (including the charge payable should a breach of terms and conditions occur). If the driver did not agree
with these conditions they would have had the option to leave site and seek alternative parking.
• An appropriate grace period is given to drivers on site to allow drivers to purchase a ticket and then leave site – we obviously do not expect drivers to purchase a ticket as they drive in
According to BPA Code of Practise 13.4 – car park operators should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended; before enforcement action is taken. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted; the grace period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes. I can confirm that Euro Car Parks have given the driver the suitable grace period of 10 minutes and was issued a Parking Charge Notice
• The vehicle entered the car park at 11:02 and exited the car park at 12:20, a total stay of 1 hour and 18 minutes; as there was not pay and display ticket purchased for the full duration a parking charge notice was issued.
• Please see Figure 3 – confirms the driver has accepted the terms and conditions of parking and has also paid for 1 hours parking.
• By parking on site the driver has accepted the terms and conditions as displayed on the signage and a contract is in place between the diver and ECP that has been breached by the driver failing to purchase a display a valid ticket to cover the entire duration of stay.
• With regards to the reference to “Pre-Estimate of Loss/breach of consumer contracts 1999.” Please be advised that the Supreme Court has made judgement (04/11/15) that clearly sets out the issue of parking charge notices on private land (law of contract applies) and in particular pre-estimate of loss. The parking charge notice is enforceable on the basis that it protected a legitimate interest when the driver failed to adhere to the terms and conditions and was not extravagant, exorbitant nor unconscionable. The parking charge is not an unenforceable penalty and does not breach the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.
• Any form of parking ticket or ‘notice’ is issued under the law ‘of trespass and Contract Law’. A driver who is invited (or chooses) to park on private land and use the car parking facilities and pays a fee/s does so under a contract (signage) with the car park operator. The parking contract sets out the terms that apply to the parking service, including the price.
• The contract (signage) clearly states the extra charges are that the driver will incur and have to pay if they decide to break the contract terms − for example, by parking longer than the time paid for or exceeding the maximum time limit applicable The signage clearly states the terms and conditions of parking, all drivers are required to purchcase a valid pay and display ticket for the full duration of their stay. Signage is visble when entering and inside of the car park and when entering private land it would be the driver responsibility to read the terms and conditions displayed before parking. e.
• Euro Car Parks only operates locations which are situated on private land, are not council owned and that Euro Car Parks has written authority to operate and issue parking charge notices on all of our locations from the landowner
• It must also be noted that any person who makes contract his own name without disclosing the existence of a principal, or who, though disclosing the fact that he is acting as an agent on behalf of a principal, renders himself personally liable on the contract, is entitled to enforce it against the other contracting party. (Fairlie v Fenton (1870) LR 5 Exch 169). It follows that a lawful contract between Euro Car Parks and the motorist will be enforceable by Euro Car Parks as a party to that contract
• It is the driver’s responsibility to ensure that he looks for signage when entering a car park.
Please see Figure 4 that shows Euro Car Parks are POFA Compliant
Please see Figure 5 which is the Code of Practise for Derby Siddals Road – which clearly states ECP Holdings (the Client) are authorised to carry out Parking Enforcement at Derby Siddals Road
It is clear the driver had purchased a pay and display therefore had accepted the terms and conditions displayed on the signage (contract). Xxxxxxx vehicle was on site for a total of 1 hour 18 minutes but only paid for 1 hour. (See figure 3)


Any advice on how to proceed is gratefully received.


Thank you

Coupon-mad

You have a day or two to add comments, so email POPLA urgently:


Dear POPLA,

Comments on Euro Car Parks' Evidence - POPLA CODE xxxxxxxxxx:


ECP: ''...read the signage displayed and parked accordance with the terms and conditions as stated.''

Comments (covered by my appeal point #6): The signage terms as stated do NOT give rise to a parking charge of £100 for this reason. Overstay is not one of the listed contraventions. ECP's sign:

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/images/localworld/ugc-images/276250/binaries/Siddals%20Road%20(Euro)%202111.JPG

The only 3 matters under 'failure to comply with the following' as stated in the alleged contractual terms, are:

- purchase and retain a valid ticket - yes, the driver did (there is no time stipulated for 'retaining' it)
- park only within marked bays - yes, the driver did.
- disabled bay terms - N/A

A new term cannot be randomly bolted onto a contract afterwards. Any ambiguity in terms MUST be interpreted in the way that most favours the consumer (Consumer Rights Act 2015) and POPLA are not exempt from that statute.



ECP: '' signage clearly states...all drivers are required to purchase a valid pay and display ticket for the duration of their stay.''

Comments (covered by my appeal point #6): They might like to think it does, but the sign does NOT mention 'duration of stay' at all. It refers to parking tariffs, not 'total stay tariffs'. It takes ten minutes or more just to drive in, find a parking space, park, grab bags & lock the car, walk to the machine, follow the instructions, finding change and putting it in the slot. This complies with the instruction to do all of that before you ''collect and retain your valid ticket'' which is THEN produced with a validly stated 1 hour 'parking licence' granted on it. The driver did not park beyond that time.

If ECP intended the time to run from the moment a car drives off the main road, then the ticket produced by their machines needs to state that time, which is within their ANPR system all along. In the absence of this, the driver is reasonably entitled to rely upon the receipt the machine produced, which allowed parking from a different, later time than ECP are trying to have POPLA believe. The driver knew what time the parking was up (from the ticket, as any reasonable person would rely upon) and got back bang on time, then queued up to leave back onto the main road.


ECP: ''we obviously do not expect drivers to purchase a ticket as they drive in''

Comments (covered by my appeal point #5): Why on earth not, at a machine at driver window height? If they are charging from that moment, having the pay & display machine working to a different time, not synchronised with the ANPR timings is an unfair business practice and a PCN cannot be properly issued on that basis.



ECP: ''The vehicle entered the car park at 11:02 and exited the car park at 12:20, a total stay of 1 hour and 18 minutes...there was not pay and display ticket purchased for the full duration...''

Comments (covered by my appeal point #3): The vehicle was not parked for more than an hour and the timings are within the two grace periods stipulated in the BPA CoP. ECP admit there must be time both before and after paid-for time: ''An appropriate grace period is given to drivers on site to allow drivers to purchase a ticket and then leave site...'' but they then only quote one of the two CoP grace periods (13.4).

They appear to have omitted the other one, which luckily I did cite in my appeal, namely ''13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’in which to decide if they are going to stay or go.'' One does not cancel out the other. 8 - 10 minutes before getting the ticket from the machine, plus 8 - 10 minutes to queue and leave after the hour's parking, is perfectly reasonable in a large retail park in the particularly busy weeks prior to Christmas.



ECP: ''ECP Holdings (the Client) are authorised to carry out Parking Enforcement at Derby Siddals Road''

Comments (covered by my appeal point #1): Why are ECP Holdings not issuing the tickets then if they are the only company 'authorised' to do so? 'ECP Holdings plc' (company number 01924387) are listed here with a 'proposal to strike off':

http://ukbizdb.com/company/01924387/ecp-holdings-plc

It mentions a previous name of that company was 'Euro Car Parks Limited' but that was just a previous name in 1985, over thirty-one years ago. The only present firm by that name has the Company Number 01270612:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/01270612

So this operator (a separate legal entity to that shown as 'client' in the evidence) has failed to respond to prove in any way that they comply with 7.3 of the BPA CoP or even that they have authority. Who are ECP Holdings? Certainly not the company listed on the sign...



Finally, ECP appear to have ignored my appeal point #2 completely so this is deemed accepted, namely:

- the photos of the number-plate in isolation are not dated or time-stamped
- nor do they clearly identify the vehicle entering or leaving this car park (which is also not identifiable in the photos as any particular location at all).

These were my words from my appeal and they have not been rebutted by the evidence.

razil

Thank you so much for your help with the reply Coupon-Mad.

I've tried to respond in the comments box but it only allows me a certain amount of words, which isn't sufficient. Should I email them direct rather than filling in the comments box?

Razil

Umkomaas

Convert your Word document into a .pdf file and then submit via the appeal portal as an attachment. In the actual comments box enter words to the effect 'Please find attached appeal for POPLA verification code xxxxxxxxx' Select 'Other' as the reason for appeal.

razil

Hi Umkomaas

IT says the following:

Please fill you comments on the operator evidence.
You have 7 days from the operator evidence submission date - 11/01/2017

There is then a box to put you comments in but nowhere to add attachments. It only allows about half the words in the box.


Thanks

Coupon-mad

This case was won:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5591042

TBCADI

ok Razil et al, I need your help for the same carpark, Siddals road in Derby.
I am a DVSA Approved Driving Instructor teaching driving lessons in and around the Derby/Derbyshire area. I have a pupil who works at Westfield Shopping Centre who meet me for her lesson in the Siddals road CP. It's a busy intersection and the safest place to wait for her as there is a pedestrian crossing adjecent to the CP.
Feb 2nd this year her lesson was scheduled to start at 1pm, I drove into the carpark at 12:47pm fully expecting her to be with me no more than 5 minutes later, I would drive out and we would be on our way.
However, on this occasion she was delayed at work and did not arrive at the carpark until 13:08.
I left the CP to start the lesson and thought nothing of it.
Today 11/01/17 I came home from teaching to a letter dated 9/01/17 containing a Parking Charge Notice for £100!!! ( reduced to £60 if I pay it by 23rd) issued by Euro Car Parks. They have issued the fine stating that I arrived on the carpark at 12:47pm and left at 13:10pm. A total of 23 minutes. I have zero intention of paying it and really need help with how to appeal and more importantly to whom.....I didn't even leave the vehicle but sat waiting inside for her to arrive.

I've read through the whole thread above and have also downloaded templates from this site to appeal. But who should I appeal to and should I ignore it ( coupon-mad advises not to...)

Help me please!!

Quentin

You need to start your own thread.


One thread per person here otherwise it gets confusing!


(NB Don't ignore the PCN!!)

TBCADI

ok will do thanks... coming up