Responsibility Question Regarding Door Frames In Housing Trust Property

gohan2091

Myself, my disabled sister and her boyfriend have moved into a bungalow (built in 1956) owned by Saffron Housing Trust. Neither my sister or I know anything about DIY or decorating but her boyfriend knows a bit. Saffron said after a year, we have more freedom to make changes to the property. We have been there for almost a month and we were not happy with many things. The property was dirty, nicotine stains everywhere, a strong smell of smoke among other things and we have spent weeks (and a hell lot of money) cleaning and decorating. Saffron gave us a paint pack and done some additional repairs but we had to delay the carpet fitting from 21st December until January because the property isn't in a good enough state to lay it and we need more time.

We painted some of the door frames, most skirting boards and many of the walls with the free paint pack. The paint on some of walls would flake off so we had to take areas of the wall back to bare plaster, buy new paint (as undercoat), sand, polyfill and repaint. Some walls would crumble in places so we bought PVA glue and more polyfill to build back those areas. Other walls (and ceilings) that we painted begin to turn brown due to the nicotine coming through. After speaking to Saffron, they have given us some primer which looks to have helped but this has taken our progress back by a few weeksand wasted a lot of paint.

My question is regarding door frames and skirting boards. When moving in, we painted some of the door frames with the paint pack but once dried, the paint easily flaked off. A man from Saffron came over (to look into the nicotine issue) and we mentioned the door frames and flaking paint. By that time, we had the plan to sand all door frames back to bare wood. The Saffron man mentioned that some paint may be lead based so when sanding, we should wear masks and wash our hands before eating. We bought sanders, sand paper and other things but the problem is there are 14 door frames in the house and most have at least 3 layers of old paint on them. It is very difficult and time consuming to remove all of this and we are going through sand paper like crazy. We decided to get a quote from a handy man who does sanding so he came over and said honesty, the door frames are so old and in a bad state, it’s not worth spending the time and money getting these back to bare wood in order to repaint and it would be cheaper and quicker to buy new frames so yesterday that is what we did. We also bought replacement skirting for all of the hallway because 2 parts of the skirting were damp and rotting.

Here is a link to the responsibilities page on Saffron's website which says that door frames and skirting is Saffron's responsibility. Are we wrong to be buying and fitting new door frames and hallway skirting? Should Saffron be paying for this? Is replacing the door frames classed as decorating and therefore our responsibility? Or were they in a bad enough state to warrant Saffron replacing them? The door frames were not rotting but is it expected of us to remove at least 3 layers of old paint on 14 door frames just to get it in a useable state to paint them? I understand we have spent money on a property that we don't own. We wanted to ask for advice here so any help would be greatly appreciated.

G_M

gohan2091 wrote: »

.......The Saffron man mentioned that some paint may be lead based and said we should wear masks and wash our hands before eating.

Surely you do this anyway..... :eek:


Are we wrong to be buying and fitting new door frames and hallway skirting? Should Saffron be paying for this? Is replacing the door frames classed as decorating and therefore our responsibility? The door frames were not rotting but is it expected of us to remove at least 3 layers of old paint on 14 door frames just to get it in a useable state to paint them? .

I would not have messed with the structure of the property (door frames) without first getting permission.

I imagine Saffron should replace the door frmaes if they need replacing. But since you say they were not rotting, why should Saffron replace them?

I'm pleased for you that you've been allocated a home and it's good to see that you are working to make it comfortable to live in.

gohan2091

As I said, I know nothing about decorating and certainly did not know about lead paint or the dangers of it. I don't know if Saffron would be happy that we have improved their property or not. I guess we should have asked permission but we were having the carpets fitted today and were in a right panic to get the skirting and frames painted (which we couldn't because of the flaking issue and how difficult and long it's taking to sand).

marliepanda

You appear to have replaced the items on a bit of a whim just because one man said it wasn't worth the hassle.

Why do you expect the housing association to foot the cost of your choice? You should have asked them first, you can't expect them to just pay up because you didn't want to take the time and effort to sand them. Three layers of paint isn't much to be honest.

gohan2091

I have a job, I work full time at the hospital. 3 layers of paint (some lead) on 14 door frames to sand sounds dangerous and would take many weeks of work and dust going everwhere in the house. We are trying to live in the house when it's in this state. I wasn't aware of the dangers of lead paint and have been breathing in lead dust in multiple rooms (from sanding) for several days and only have a basic cloth mask. Now I am worried about lead poisoning and should probably see a doctor.

I didn't say I expect Saffron to pay the cost, I just wanted to explain the situation and ask for opinions since I read the frames are their responsibility (but it says decorating is not). I wanted classification on what is repair work and what is decorating. Perhaps we should have asked before replacing them.

Mossfarr

The Saffron man mentioned that some paint MAY BE lead based so when sanding, we should wear masks and wash our hands before eating.

You don't know that the old paint definitely contained lead - I think you are probably worrying unnecessarily.Its a good idea to wear a mask when sanding old paintwork as the dust you breathe in can sometimes cause a chest infection.If you intend to stay in the property as your 'forever home' you don't need to do the work all at once. People often spend years getting their homes exactly the way they want them.

gohan2091

That is true but skirting and painted door frames in my opinion are necessary first things before carpet is fitted and the home currently feels like a big dusty, dirty place at the moment. It really is our priority before carpets get fitted. I am worrying over the lead. The house was built in 1956 so there is a good chance lead is present. I know now a basic cloth mask isn't sufficient for protection and sanding has disturbed the old paint but was absolutely necessary to prepare the wood for repainting as it simply flakes off.

Doozergirl

Lead paint isn't really the issue.

The issue is layers of paint with poor preparation in between. Decorating well is all about the preparation of the surface.

The cost of new architrave is about £2 a metre, if that. Clearly the labour involved in sanding existing ones right back is more than just buying new and re-installing.

The issue is whether you value your 'free' time sanding back to a good surface or whether you want to pay someone. If you want to pay someone then yes, it would almost certainly be cheaper and less disruption to replace the architraves.

There was not an issue with the quality of architrave, it's all about the economy of labour.

When_the_going_gets_tough

I wonder if part of the problem is a switch from oil based gloss to water based. Good preparation is the key but I have had a few problems recently getting the new water based paints to cover old oil based. I live in a Victorian house and have never sanded back to bare wood or worried about lead paint. Just get a really good key and wash with sugar soap. And use a top quality paint not the band q rubbish would be y advice. And don't worry you can live with bare boards for a while. It all takes time.

[Deleted User]

I have moved into some yellowed nicotine infested houses. Flash solution (diluted or if really bad use it neat) gets rid of the stains (except yellowed white paint, this is a chemical change not a surface stain). Always. Nicotine is a grease based problem, use something to break down the grease. You can also use white wine vinegar (buy by the bottle for 47p from Asda). Unfortunately, nowadays, people don't seem to see the point in a good scrub, they paint over things hoping for a quick solution.

Sanding old paints is slow and maximises the distribution of possibly lead paint powder - can't think of anything worse. Use a heat gun. Its no slower and can be quicker (as long as oil based paints have been used, not so good with water based paints).

Google before you do things for the best way to remove stains and paint. YouTube is wonderful. I had to learn my DIY from books and with a lot of 'how do I do this' thought lol.

If newly applied paint is still peeling (its happened to me) the walls affected could be damp.

If door frames weren't damp, replacing them was silly and expensive. Your expert is lazy.. and not paying for the results of his half assed advice so view his advice with some cynicism. He's looking at it from a commercial point of view which is not going to be the same as someone who doesn't want to waste money. I've repaired badly painted (as in painted with dirt/fluff all included) and really banged up frames. I had to do it here. You don't need to buy solid polyfilla .., get the powdered plaster stuff (usually a pound a box) and make it up. If you want to repair an edge, apply plaster from one side, then the other. Let it dry. Sand down and put another thin layer on if needed to get a nice 90 degree angle. I've definitely had to do that here lol. Here is an example of boxed filler powder, more expensive than what you can get in pound shops but it gives you an idea http://www.wilko.com/fillers+sealants/wilko-patching-plaster-15kg/invt/0342402 Its easier to sand down too (the made up stuff sets like concrete, very difficult to sand). I've repaired really damaged door frames so they look like new in this way. It might take a couple of applications (make it the consistency of cream cheese) but the end result is very good, once you apply a couple of coats of gloss.

Painting diluted pva on walls often helps with adhesion of paints and wallpaper, and provides a primer like effect (so you don't get the paint simply sinking into the exposed plaster wall). Again use google.

Norman_Castle

gohan2091 wrote: »

My question is regarding door frames and skirting boards. When moving in, we painted some of the door frames with the paint pack but once dried, the paint easily flaked off. A man from Saffron came over (to look into the nicotine issue) and we mentioned the door frames and flaking paint. By that time, we had the plan to sand all door frames back to bare wood. The Saffron man mentioned that some paint may be lead based so when sanding, we should wear masks and wash our hands before eating.

Unless you want wooden door frames you don't need to remove the old paint. Lightly sand by hand and clean with sugar soap then use the correct undercoat between the old gloss and new paint.

Replacing the frames because of flaking paint is unnecessary and not the landlords responsibility.