Possible Dismissal for Gross Misconduct

robatwork

Pips_Mum wrote: »

My partner got sacked for gross misconduct (he didn't actually do it but could not provide evidence that he didn't ) but anyway job centre said as long as it wasn't gross misconduct for theft they would not sanction him so hopefully yours will be the same.

I find that a bit strange as gross misconduct could mean punching someone or worse

Pips_Mum

I quite agree but that's what they told him!
He was dismissed for alledgedly losing data, he couldn't prove that he hadn't so was a gonna but job centre said they wouldn't sanction him for that kind of dismissal.

FredG

Regardless of his behaviour, if the incident occurred 3 hours past the end of the work function, then it becomes a social incident surely? If I swore in the pub and a couple of work colleagues happened to be there and overhear me would they be with their rights to discipline me?


As long as there is nothing that links my behaviour to the company in question then it ceases to be any of their business.

In this case did any of the people directly insulted complain? If so, that puts a slightly different slant on it but in my eyes that's still flimsy.

Smodlet

"Commenting on how attractive a female member of staff was" could range from remarking how beautiful she is to all the disgustingly repellent things you would like to do to her. The former is hardly going to cause offence; I imagine it was closer to the latter end of the spectrum which would account for the "violent and threatening" accusation.

Just so you know, unless you happen to be both God's gift to women (doubtful) and a gentleman (which you clearly are not) your opinions of women are probably repugnant to them, whether positive (in your mind) or negative.

JustAnotherSaver

ohreally wrote: »

You stated "the manager in question and HR had tried everything to just make it a final written warning". Define everything as they clearly didn't.

Maybe they did try everything.

Maybe it's out of their hands & those above decided otherwise ... which they clearly did.

Undervalued

FredG wrote: »

Regardless of his behaviour, if the incident occurred 3 hours past the end of the work function, then it becomes a social incident surely? If I swore in the pub and a couple of work colleagues happened to be there and overhear me would they be with their rights to discipline me?


As long as there is nothing that links my behaviour to the company in question then it ceases to be any of their business.

In this case did any of the people directly insulted complain? If so, that puts a slightly different slant on it but in my eyes that's still flimsy.

If your behaviour could reasonably be interpreted as bringing your employer into disrepute then yes they could discipline you.

Your duty to your employer does not stop at the office door or factory gate.

FredG

Undervalued wrote: »

If your behaviour could reasonably be interpreted as bringing your employer into disrepute then yes they could discipline you.

Your duty to your employer does not stop at the office door or factory gate.

How would one define bringing my employer into disrepute? At which point does the 35 hours per week I give them begin to have the authority to shape my personality in the remaining 133 hours of the week?


To clarify, I'd never speak ill of my employer, on the whole they treat me very well. I'm a happy drunk and a decent person overall so I can't see myself demeaning women or dropping in some opulent C-bomb usage either which appears to have occurred in this case.


I just find this authoritarian slant of employers owning employees and the general acceptance of it by many to be quite weird. I do not mention my employer by name on social media, I do not state where I work and I'm sure that's the common sense approach.


Then again, I work for an organisation that helps the poor and disabled yet the gentleman opposite me often bemoans the people we help in the most crass terminology possible, usually to only be met with stifled laughter from the higher-ups and without repercussion.


I did however get caught in a lift mid-embrace with the girl who pushed the post trolley while working for a major financial institution. Thought I was a goner there for sure, I mean...I was getting paid for it too. Disgraceful!

Smodlet

I agree with you, FredG, wholeheartedly. I can only imagine it is the zero hours... culture, for want of a better word which, imho, has led to this quasi-slave mentality. The boundaries you describe are, however, somewhat blurred by the fact that it was a "works do" (I've always loathed them)

Technically, especially if held outside the workplace, it should be classed as a social occasion but, as you say, there are those who remain within the bounds of (relative) decency and those who do not. We do not know if the OP's and his colleagues' workplace was in any way identifiable from what they were wearing, for instance. So many people go into pubs with those door pass cards around their necks, these days, plus the place was booked in the company's name for a time, presumably, as he mentioned that later "the public came in". All it would take is for one patron to ask, "Who are that crowd?"

I think having a few drinks, getting drunk, even, is acceptable in these situations, provided you do not get so drunk you make what were probably sexist remarks about colleagues, and certainly draw the line at describing one of them as the C-word in the hearing of people who have the power to sack you.

It is obviously too late for the OP now, but who knows? Perhaps this was a blessing in disguise for him, if he goes back to university and embarks on a career other than standing around in a supermarket, waiting to detain possibly attractive, female customers, who might just sue if his attitude to them in any way mirrored his behaviour at the works do. I am not saying this would ever happen and he says his record had been exemplary but, were you his manager, would you want to take the risk?

I doubt he will learn that women are people, not objects for some time, if ever but 'tis the season of peace to all men of good will, no? Maybe he'll grow up and acquire some of that, one day.

FBaby

How would one define bringing my employer into disrepute? At which point does the 35 hours per week I give them begin to have the authority to shape my personality in the remaining 133 hours of the week?

Surprisingly easily if you can be linked to the organisation. It is often all to do with bad publicity resulting from someone's behaviour which could affect the company. It is particular common in the public sector, but I assume also in the private sector.

It is part of some organisation policies that you are not allowed to wear a badge or uniform to go to public places. This is specifically for this reason.

OP has their office do there. it sounds like behaved badly and witnesses would have known that he works for this particular organisation, linking bad behaviour to the organisation, maybe even taking pictures ready to sell to the papers if it was bad enough. That's where the disrepute comes about.

FredG

FBaby wrote: »

Surprisingly easily if you can be linked to the organisation. It is often all to do with bad publicity resulting from someone's behaviour which could affect the company. It is particular common in the public sector, but I assume also in the private sector.

It is part of some organisation policies that you are not allowed to wear a badge or uniform to go to public places. This is specifically for this reason.

OP has their office do there. it sounds like behaved badly and witnesses would have known that he works for this particular organisation, linking bad behaviour to the organisation, maybe even taking pictures ready to sell to the papers if it was bad enough. That's where the disrepute comes about.

I do get it, I was just being a little facetious so I apologise. Didn't the OP state that they'd moved on from the venue for the function though? In that case it becomes a personal matter between him (and his admittedly bad behaviour) and the employees he upset. That is unless he was stood on the dancefloor besmirching the employer with ferocious blue language.