House potentially knowingly advertised without building regs

saunaboy1975

Hi,

In process of buying a house (listed as 3 bed, 3 floor house) & solicitor has found that building regs aren't in place for the 3rd floor extension. I'm sure this is pretty common. I've been stung by this before - bought a converted 'maisonette' years back with indemnity insurance advised by sols 'to cover the house' & then had to sell as lower value as a 'flat' as had no regs for upper floor & couldn't get them.

However this time...

1. As I'd been burnt before I specifically asked the buyer at time of viewing about regs for 3rd floor & was assured that all was in place and 'certificates were in a folder ready to be seen by sols'. When he's asked, they don't have them.

2. House was up for sale earlier in year & was under offer for some time at higher value, then failed to sell. Same EA & listed then as a "3 bed 3 floor property".

Our sols now have asked for the seller to get regularisation to be done for a sale to proceed, and the sellers are less than keen. But if it turns out that they tried earlier this year as part of first attempted sale (I assume they must have been asked to) and failed, would I have any claim to the EA for costs incurred so far for my attempted sale? Surely if this is why the first sale failed, then any subsequent advertising should have revised the property description? Clearly I also now know that the seller isn't entirely honest...

Would seem reasonable to claim costs back (~£400 in sols/mortgage fees etc) given that this would have been advertised wrongly & knowingly so.

Out of spite, could I also potentially block the EA re-listing as a 3 bed, 3 floor?

Thanks for any replies in advance guys.

ST1991

Unfortunately... lots of things are said on the advertisement.

My friend was recently told explicitly that some structural work completed on the house was NOT underpinning, and they had all the docs ready to send. She instructed sols, mortgage app, survey etc. Lo-and-behold 2 months later they still don't have the docs... and suddenly part of the house indeed was underpinned. No reclaim as far as i know

P.S ours was sold with a driveway, mentioned in the advert, mentioned by the EA in person, but flagged by our solicitor as no drop kerb. Little chance of us getting one put in too, as we are near the bend in a road/junction. Nothing we could do!

AdrianC

saunaboy1975 wrote: »

In process of buying a house (listed as 3 bed, 3 floor house) & solicitor has found that building regs aren't in place for the 3rd floor extension.

When was the work done? If it's over a year ago, then the lack of building regs really makes zero difference in and of itself. The local authority cannot enforce anything.

That apart, it's down to the quality of the work. There's no way of knowing whether that was up to scratch, of course.

Our sols now have asked for the seller to get regularisation to be done for a sale to proceed

...as is your right...

and the sellers are less than keen.

...as is their right.

If you both stick to that, then the sale is off.
If future buyers continue to stick to that, then the vendor may have to revise their position.

"Regularisation" will not be cheap or easy. It is not a paper-form box-ticking exercise. Building control should have been involved from the start of the work, with regular site visits. If that's all been done, and no problems raised, and the only thing missing was the final sign-off, then it should be straightforward. But if the interim visits were not undertaken, then the internal walls and ceilings may well need to be removed to allow sight of the structure and the insulation, along with other factors.

Or they could just find a buyer who's less concerned about the lack of paperwork, perhaps at auction.

But if it turns out that they tried earlier this year as part of first attempted sale (I assume they must have been asked to) and failed, would I have any claim to the EA for costs incurred so far for my attempted sale? Surely if this is why the first sale failed, then any subsequent advertising should have revised the property description? Clearly I also now know that the seller isn't entirely honest...

Why?
How many rooms, capable of having beds put in them, are there?
How many floors are they located on?

If there are indeed three rooms, and three floors, then how is the description inaccurate?
Did the description explicitly state that building regulations had been signed off as part of the work?

AdrianC

ST1991 wrote: »

P.S ours was sold with a driveway, mentioned in the advert, mentioned by the EA in person, but flagged by our solicitor as no drop kerb.

Did you not notice the lack of drop kerb when you viewed the property?

lincroft1710

The house has 3 floors - Yes/No

The house has 3 bedrooms - Yes/No

The answer in both cases is yes, lack of building regs does not alter the physical entity.

Who told you building regs were in place and in a folder - EA or vendor?
Answer = vendor. So EA hasn't claimed building regs were in existence.

Unless built within the last 5 years most houses in UK would fail to meet all the requirements of building regs.

ST1991

AdrianC wrote: »

Did you not notice the lack of drop kerb when you viewed the property?

We are (were?) FTB's so were'nt clued up on what to look for on a first viewing. That, and the estate agents car bumped up on the curb over the driveway probably did it

Hoploz

OP do you want to buy the house or not?

The paperwork wasn't completed at the time. But it's a while ago so now it's up to you to decide whether to accept it as it is or not.

An indemnity policy may be requested by your lender to proceed. But either way this won't affect the building itself.

You can either pull out (and no, you won't be able to get any money back despite the seller's lie, or perhaps their misunderstanding of the system) or you can get it surveyed to put your mind at rest regarding its structural integrity.

saunaboy1975

I disagree. The lack of regs does affect what the house is described as. When I tried to sell my 3 bed, 2 floor place a while ago I was instructed by 2x sols that it must be sold as a 2 bed, 1 floor flat with loft as no regs to support the top floor as 'habitable space'.

So from my point of view, if I buy this as a 3 floor, 3 bed property, what happens when I try to sell & then find I need to sell as a 2 floor 2 bed?

stator

You have no claim against the EA, they don't work for you. Your claim would be against the seller of the house.
If you think you have a good case then take it to small claims court.

AdrianC

saunaboy1975 wrote: »

I disagree. The lack of regs does affect what the house is described as. When I tried to sell my 3 bed, 2 floor place a while ago I was instructed by 2x sols that it must be sold as a 2 bed, 1 floor flat with loft as no regs to support the top floor as 'habitable space'.

So from my point of view, if I buy this as a 3 floor, 3 bed property, what happens when I try to sell & then find I need to sell as a 2 floor 2 bed?

What will have happened to that other room and floor? Nothing. They'll still be there. Nobody's going to come round and stop you putting a bed in that room or climbing those stairs. Nobody will die, horribly, as a result. Probably.

Hoploz

saunaboy1975 wrote: »

I disagree. The lack of regs does affect what the house is described as. When I tried to sell my 3 bed, 2 floor place a while ago I was instructed by 2x sols that it must be sold as a 2 bed, 1 floor flat with loft as no regs to support the top floor as 'habitable space'.

So from my point of view, if I buy this as a 3 floor, 3 bed property, what happens when I try to sell & then find I need to sell as a 2 floor 2 bed?

I can see that you've been burned by this before, and it's doubly annoying that you asked the question and still didn't get to the truth this time.

However, the building exists, in real life. Most houses do not have building regs certificates as they were built before such a thing existed. The likelihood is that the rest of the house did not have a sign off certificate, but there's no paper trail issue with that, only the conversion. The same thing applies regardless....

You can buy the property or you can decide not to. At best you can ask for a discount. Is it the money that is your gripe? If you're prepared to walk away you could reduce your offer accordingly and see whether they will accept it.

Not having a certificate does not mean the building is dangerous, it simply means you don't have a piece of paper. Just like a good percentage of UK housing stock was built without a certificate, and if before the 1980's they were built before building regs system was in place. Any house or extension built before this had no paperwork. And most of it hasn't fallen down yet. Most of it was built fine but would not meet today's standards.