Advice on CCA 1974 - Previous Threads

Jagista

Hi. I haven't been able to join the forum for quite some time and was hoping to trace some older threads about the Consumer Credit Act 1974 that I think are relevant to my circumstances. There was on long thread in particular in which Sourcrates had given some very clear advice about how to proceed where a creditor was unable to produce the CCA agreement where I think the advice was to make a very small offer of repayment as a full and final payment.
Could anyone please point me in the direction of these threads please? Or if they're not available now could I please check with anyone how to proceed with a CCA request and when "prescribed terms" are relevant (possibly on agreements taken out before 2006?).


Thanks

sourcrates

Hi,

Some Info here :

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/13.pdf

CCA request template letter here :

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/sampleletters/Pages/Information-about-your-agreement-under-the-Consumer-Credit-Act-%28sole-name%29.aspx

Basically a response to a request for information, on a pre-April 2007 agreement, must include the prescribed terms applicable to the account at the time of opening.

sourcrates

Found this post from a few months ago :

Old 30-09-2016, 3:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfw128 View Post

No agreement essentially means they cant enforce there rights through the courts.
If they have admitted they have no agreement, then its also likely they dont hold enough information on the account to even produce a recon, which incidentally, would be sufficient for the purposes of a section 77/79 request for information, however old the account was.

There was no change to these sections in April 2007, so pre and post this date, the law is the same on those.

What happened in April 2007 was that S127(3) was removed, and so earlier agreements that meet the requirements of a S77-79 request may not meet the requirements of S127(3), which are that the agreement must contain the prescribed terms in S61

Best explained here :

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/13.pdf

For free debt advice please call National Debtline on
0808 808 4000
Monday to Friday
9am to 9pm
Saturday 9.30am to 1pm
Last edited by sourcrates; 30-09-2016 at 3:55 PM.

Jagista

Thanks Sourcrates. I'll read through the Handbook and use the CCA request template. I'm sure there was also something in one of the threads where someone was suggesting offering to pay a creditor who had not been able to produce evidence a very small proportion of the outstanding amount; whoever replied had thought the content of the proposal was about right. I don't quite get how paying a small amount in such circumstances would be relevant - isn't that almost contradictory? (sorry if I'm missing something!).Grateful once again for any input on this please?

sourcrates

Jagista wrote: »

Thanks Sourcrates. I'll read through the Handbook and use the CCA request template. I'm sure there was also something in one of the threads where someone was suggesting offering to pay a creditor who had not been able to produce evidence a very small proportion of the outstanding amount; whoever replied had thought the content of the proposal was about right. I don't quite get how paying a small amount in such circumstances would be relevant - isn't that almost contradictory? (sorry if I'm missing something!).Grateful once again for any input on this please?

Basically it just crosses the T's and dots the I's, and puts the whole thing to bed, if they will settle for a small amount of money, rather than keep chasing an unenforceable debt, which they can and will do, even though court action isn't possible, they can still pester you for payment.

Jagista

Thanks again Sourcrates. I'm going to get properly started on this soon. The Handbook seems very clear, not least of which the Failure to Comply section at 13.1.6.


I've already written to one of my creditors twice asking for a copy of the credit agreement with no evidence having been forthcoming. All they have sent is a holding reply saying they've referred back to their client (another debt management company as opposed to the original lender) asking them for the agreement. The first letter I sent was over 5 weeks ago!

sourcrates

Jagista wrote: »

Thanks again Sourcrates. I'm going to get properly started on this soon. The Handbook seems very clear, not least of which the Failure to Comply section at 13.1.6.


I've already written to one of my creditors twice asking for a copy of the credit agreement with no evidence having been forthcoming. All they have sent is a holding reply saying they've referred back to their client (another debt management company as opposed to the original lender) asking them for the agreement. The first letter I sent was over 5 weeks ago!

Only the original creditor holds the original credit agreement.

Even when debts are sold on, no paperwork is ever exchanged, that's the shocking reality of debt collecting and selling in this country.

Jagista

Only the original creditor holds the original credit agreement.

Even when debts are sold on, no paperwork is ever exchanged, that's the shocking reality of debt collecting and selling in this country.


Incredible! One of my creditors ( a DCA) has failed to provide the CCA evidence despite two requests for them to do so. I'm a bit nervous about doing this and want to make absolutely sure I get it right so would welcome a bit of further guidance please?


Should I send them a F&F settlement letter along the lines of the templates referred to in other similar threads, offering say, 5% of the full amount? If that was accepted, have the DCA or any other agency to whom that debt might be sold on to, have no grounds to pursue the rest of the debt? Or, might it be better not to pay anything at all as the debt is unenforceable? I suppose the latter would leave me open to the original CCA agreement being found at some stage though the former would not. Also, another DCA returned the £1.00 PO I sent them saying it's not required - is the £1.00 fee definitely required please? Not that I mind paying £1.00 (!!); I just don't want to give the DCA any grounds around not observing the correct procedure. Thanks again.

sourcrates

Jagista wrote: »

Only the original creditor holds the original credit agreement.

Even when debts are sold on, no paperwork is ever exchanged, that's the shocking reality of debt collecting and selling in this country.


Incredible! One of my creditors ( a DCA) has failed to provide the CCA evidence despite two requests for them to do so. I'm a bit nervous about doing this and want to make absolutely sure I get it right so would welcome a bit of further guidance please?


Should I send them a F&F settlement letter along the lines of the templates referred to in other similar threads, offering say, 5% of the full amount? If that was accepted, have the DCA or any other agency to whom that debt might be sold on to, have no grounds to pursue the rest of the debt? Or, might it be better not to pay anything at all as the debt is unenforceable? I suppose the latter would leave me open to the original CCA agreement being found at some stage though the former would not. Also, another DCA returned the £1.00 PO I sent them saying it's not required - is the £1.00 fee definitely required please? Not that I mind paying £1.00 (!!); I just don't want to give the DCA any grounds around not observing the correct procedure. Thanks again.

The £1 fee, is the statutory fee payable under the consumer credit act for a sec 77-79 information request (CCA request).

If they have said they cannot find your agreement, it's unlikely the OC will keep on looking for it, although not impossible.

You could make a small settlement offer, in which case you would use the template letter from the National Debtline website.

It is specifically worded so that once your offer is accepted, they or there agents cannot pursue the remaining balance.

Template letter here :

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/sampleletters/Pages/Full-and-final-settlement-offers-%28sole-name%29.aspx

Make sure everything is done in writing, and keep copies.

Jagista

Thanks again Sourcrates.


Could I please check a few final things before contacting what will be the first of several DCA's - I really want to make sure I get this right although Sourcrates has already answered the most important aspects. All my accounts with DCA's are in relation to pre 2007 agreements.


1. Does the fact that the DCA has not supplied the CCA agreement effectively mean they've made the debt unenforceable? (unless or until they do trace it).
2. Although I'm tempted to leave things as they now are with this account I suppose that leaves me open to the DCA actually finding the agreement at some point whereas if my F&F offer (which would be 5%) was accepted then as Sourcrates suggests they or any other agent can't then pursue anything?
3. On the other hand if original creditors don't typically look for old agreements then the option of not making a F&F offer is tempting.
4. I'm not sure what to do for the best on this aspect!! A F&F settlement does seem a better option though with just over 20 accounts to chase in this way finding the necessary funds would be very difficult!
5. Last question: Are there any statistics on how often the OC finds the original agreement?


Apologies though I'd really appreciate any further advice on the above if possible please.


Thanks again.

sourcrates

Ok,

(1) if they cannot supply you with anything that resembles a credit agreement, then yes, it would not be enforceable through the courts.

(2) if not found the first time, it's unlikely they will continue to look for it.
If you make an offer, and it's accepted, you obtain the creditors assurance in writing, that the remainder of the debt will not be pursued.

(4) on occasion, if paperwork can't be found, the debt can still be sold on, and you'd then have to inform the new owner of its unenforcability, as they will not be aware, this could happen numerous times.

Not sure figures exist for your last question.