Notice to keeper 1 month after the event...

Carthesis

Utter, utter utter utter nonsense. A confused mess of a response.

It is not a requirement for the Parking Charge Notices issued to you, that we must notify you within 14 days. This only applies if we refer to the Keeper Liability provisions in Schedule 4 of POFA2012, when we issue a Parking Charge Notice. As we did not, we have 35 days to notify you of the Parking Charge Notice.

That might be true - if they aren't relying on POFA2012, then the provisions of POFA2012 with relation to the mandatory periods do not apply. BUT if they aren't applying POFA2012, then they CANNOT invoke Keeper Liability!

Britannia Parking have made no assumptions as to the identity of the driver, we have written to you as the vehicle keeper to inform you of any outstanding contraventions on your vehicle. Should you wish to transfer liability, please provide the driver's details and we will amend our records. Please be aware the identity of the driver does not affect the validity of a PCN.

It bloody well does, as they have stated point-blank they are not relying on POFA2012, hence can't pursue the RK, so can ONLY pursue the driver!!

They've only selectively quoted Section 13 of the COP as well, but that won't help you in this case as the 71min stay is outside any grace periods.

First step here is to write to the DVLA and find out WHEN Britannia requested your data. If they requested it outwith the 14-day period, then they have no "reasonable requirement" for it, and thus are in breach of the DPA.

Then you've got to write your POPLA appeal.

The very first question you should be asking is "If you aren't relying on POFA2012, as stated, then under what statute are you attempting to transfer liability for the actions of the Driver to me as Registered Keeper?"

Should you wish to transfer liability, please provide the driver's details and we will amend our records.

Er, no boys. It's up TO YOU to transfer liability TO the RK FROM the Driver, by compliance with POFA2012. You CANNOT just hold the RK liable and insist they transfer liability back to the Driver!

Honestly - they're beyond clueless.

Umkomaas

days. This only applies if we refer to the Keeper Liability provisions in Schedule 4 of POFA 2012, when
we issue a Parking Charge Notice. As we did not, we have 35 days to notify you of the Parking Charge

There you go, an admission that they are not seeking keeper liability. You are under no obligation to identify the driver, then the game's up for Britannia. You could simply go through the motions of a standard POPLA appeal including 'no keeper liability' at which point Britannia will inevitably tell POPLA they do not wish to contest the appeal. But they will have made you jump through hoops to get there (time, effort, hassle and worry being some of them).

Alternatively, you could write back to them stating that as they concede they have no case against you as the keeper of the vehicle, and you will not be identifying the driver, they must cancel the charge, not put you through the process and inconvenience of appealing to POPLA.

You go on to warn them that as they have no cause to continue with this, should you have to appeal to POPLA and you win, or they withdraw after you have submitted your appeal, you will issuing proceedings against them for a breach of the Data Protection Act. Quote the legally binding case of Vidal-Hall v Google, Inc. [2015] EWCA Civ 311. This will be for a minimum of £750 which was seen as reasonable punitive damages in the above case.

Also a bit of reading of two very recent cases where this has been turned against PPCs.

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/smart-parking-settle-out-of-court-for.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/liverpool-business-park-motorist-wins.html

Also if you have a look through some recent threads for posts on this subject by contributor 'lynnzer', who has drafted some very sharp and to the point warning letters to PPCs about their liability for breaching the DPA.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=SF&s=&f=60

You should get on with drafting your POPLA appeal whichever way you decide to proceed, as you don't want to miss their deadline should it need to go to the POPLA stage.

Anagram

Thanks for the responses guys, I will try and find time to get on to your recommendations later today.

Anagram

I have written to the DVLA as per the template provided by Pappa Golf earlier. Let's see what comes back...

Anagram

FYI I have not heard anything back from the DVLA. I was waiting to hear back from them before responding further to Britannia but as I haven't heard anything I guess I need to do something by way of a response to their rejection of my appeal?

Fruitcake

You need to construct a PoPLA appeal and post it here before yo submit it.
One of your appeal points will be non POFA 2012 complaint NTK, plus their admission that they are not holding the keeper liable, so why the hell are they doing the opposite? Other terms and phrases are available.

Use the PoPLA template appeal points from the NEWBIES thread plus any other points from successful appeals in the POPLA Decisions thread. These should also include at least, not the landowner, no standing to issue charges in their own right, and inadequate signage on top of the NTK points above.

Also complain to the BPA and DVLA that they had no business getting keeper data so that is a DPA breach.

Anagram

Prior to going down the road of a PoPLA appeal, I was thinking of sending this reply to Britannia re their rejection of my appeal:


To Whom it may concern,

Your rejection of my appeal is full of contradictions that completely undermine your reasoning; here are a few examples:

"It is not a requirement for the Parking Charge Notices issued to you, that we must notify you within 14 days. This only applies if we refer to the Keeper Liability provisions in Schedule 4 of POFA2012, when we issue a Parking Charge Notice. As we did not, we have 35 days to notify you of the Parking Charge Notice."

That might be true - if you weren't relying on POFA2012, then the provisions of POFA2012 with relation to the mandatory periods do not apply BUT if you aren't applying POFA2012, then you CANNOT invoke Keeper Liability.

"Britannia Parking have made no assumptions as to the identity of the driver, we have written to you as the vehicle keeper to inform you of any outstanding contraventions on your vehicle. Should you wish to transfer liability, please provide the driver's details and we will amend our records. Please be aware the identity of the driver does not affect the validity of a PCN."

Yes it does, as you have stated point-blank you are not relying on POFA2012, hence you can't pursue the Registered Keeper and thus can ONLY pursue the driver. If you aren't relying on POFA2012, as stated, then under what statute are you attempting to transfer liability for the actions of the Driver to me as Registered Keeper?

"Should you wish to transfer liability, please provide the driver's details and we will amend our records."

It's up to you to transfer liability to the Registered Keeper from the Driver, by compliance with POFA2012. You cannot just hold me as Registered Keeper liable and insist that I transfer liability back to the Driver.

Also, returning to my first point:

"This only applies if we refer to the Keeper Liability provisions in Schedule 4 of POFA 2012, when we issue a Parking Charge Notice. As we did not, we have 35 days to notify you of the Parking Charge Notice."

This is an admission that you are not seeking keeper liability and I am therefore not under any obligation to identify the driver. As you concede that you have no case against me as the keeper of the vehicle, and I will not be identifying the driver, I suggest that it is in best interests of both Britannia and me that you cancel the charge and not cause me the inconvenience of appealing to POPLA. As you have no cause to continue to pursue me, should you continue to do so and I have to appeal to POPLA and win, or you withdraw after I have submitted my appeal, I may be caused to issue proceedings against Britannia for a breach of the Data Protection Act. As per Vidal-Hall v Google, Inc. [2015] EWCA Civ 311 this will be for a minimum of £750 which was seen as reasonable punitive damages in the said case.

In light of the above I would hope that you rescind the PCN that you have issued to me as the Registered Keeper of the vehicle and save you and I the time and inconvenience of taking this further.


That was based on the points made by Carthesis and Umkomaas earlier this thread.

Coupon-mad

Have you missed the fact that POPLA codes expire after 30 days? You are in your last week...

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Do I have 30 days from the date that Britannia rejected my appeal? That was the 12th December...Just checking...

Do you think that I should send the reply above to Britannia first?

Coupon-mad

Nope, don't. Just do the POPLA appeal based on the templates in the NEWBIES thread post #3 plus the fact the PCN came too late and was not worded for 'keeper liability' under the POFA.

Show us first.

Do I have 30 days from the date that Britannia rejected my appeal? That was the 12th December...Just checking...

Probably - no need to use any special POPLA code checker page...the date the code was generated is shown in the middle numbers - e.g. a POPLA code issued on the last day of the year (366th day of 2016) would be 3666. So 12th December (I think) should have 3466 or maybe 3456 in the middle?