Query on dispute of will / probate

phatwa

Hi all. I will keep it brief: A relative died fairly recently (intestate) and their ex-partner (claiming to be current partner) is preparing to make a claim of 50% of the estate. The ex-partner was never married to my relative, but they are presumably going to claim under the 'living with deceased for at least two years prior to their death' clause.

My relative had no other relatives nearby (very remote part of the UK!) but we are pretty sure they weren't either living together at any point nor actually in a relationship at the time of death. This is based on conversations with locals, neighbours, acquaintances etc. My relative was estranged from a lot of the rest of the family, which doesn't help matters, but assuming the ex-partner proceeds with the claim, how can we go about proving that they didn't live together? (The ex-partner burnt all the records as they had a key to the estate property).

It's probably worth adding that there is also some doubt if they were ever in a relationship and were instead "just friends". We also don't have much evidence that they lived together or if the ex-partner just visited at weekends.

All of this is difficult to prove; if anyone has any advice that would be great.

PS: does anyone know anything about probate dispute costs? The reason I ask is because our solicitor has inferred we should negotiate on the 50% claim, otherwise the costs may spiral if it becomes protracted. Without an idea of possible costs, it's hard to know whether to go for that or push for nothing for the ex-partner - which is what most of my family think they deserve!

Yorkshireman99

phatwa wrote: »

Hi all. I will keep it brief: A relative died fairly recently (intestate) and their ex-partner (claiming to be current partner) is preparing to make a claim of 50% of the estate. The ex-partner was never married to my relative, but they are presumably going to claim under the 'living with deceased for at least two years prior to their death' clause.

My relative had no other relatives nearby (very remote part of the UK!) but we are pretty sure they weren't either living together at any point nor actually in a relationship at the time of death. This is based on conversations with locals, neighbours, acquaintances etc. My relative was estranged from a lot of the rest of the family, which doesn't help matters, but assuming the ex-partner proceeds with the claim, how can we go about proving that they didn't live together? (The ex-partner burnt all the records as they had a key to the estate property).

It's probably worth adding that there is also some doubt if they were ever in a relationship and were instead "just friends". We also don't have much evidence that they lived together or if the ex-partner just visited at weekends.

All of this is difficult to prove; if anyone has any advice that would be great.

PS: does anyone know anything about probate dispute costs? The reason I ask is because our solicitor has inferred we should negotiate on the 50% claim, otherwise the costs may spiral if it becomes protracted. Without an idea of possible costs, it's hard to know whether to go for that or push for nothing for the ex-partner - which is what most of my family think they deserve!

Unmarried partners have no claim. Starting a claim is likely to cost £20,000.

phatwa

Hi, I understand that they have "no claim" in theory, however I believe it is possible to claim under certain circumstances. We don't know the exact details of any such claim yet but are assuming it's either going to be “living with the deceased for at least two years prior to their death” or “being maintained by the deceased”. The ex-partner is alleging they spent sums on the house to do it up, which seems a stretch given the state of it.

If the ex-partner is going to claim under the former, then per my research "an applicant must show that during the whole of the period of two years ending immediately before the date when the deceased died, he or she was (a) living in the same household as the deceased, and (b) as the husband or wife of the deceased." Surely our solicitor should know that b) is not the case therefore this is void...?

Yorkshireman99

phatwa wrote: »

Hi, I understand that they have "no claim" in theory, however I believe it is possible to claim under certain circumstances. We don't know the exact details of any such claim yet but are assuming it's either going to be “living with the deceased for at least two years prior to their death” or “being maintained by the deceased”. The ex-partner is alleging they spent sums on the house to do it up, which seems a stretch given the state of it.

If the ex-partner is going to claim under the former, then per my research "an applicant must show that during the whole of the period of two years ending immediately before the date when the deceased died, he or she was (a) living in the same household as the deceased, and (b) as the husband or wife of the deceased." Surely our solicitor should know that b) is not the case therefore this is void...?

Exactly! I can only think that the solicitor mistakenly thinks they were married. I suggest you ask the solicitor exactly what legal basis for a claim. Who is going to apply for letters of administration and what relation are they to the deceased?

thorsoak

Was the deceased receiving the 25% single person's council tax rebate?

Keep_pedalling

It down to her to prove she was living with him, which could be somewhat difficult if she is currently living at another address and has burnt all his paperwork.

NordicNoir

phatwa wrote: »

If the ex-partner is going to claim under the former, then per my research "an applicant must show that during the whole of the period of two years ending immediately before the date when the deceased died, he or she was (a) living in the same household as the deceased, and (b) as the husband or wife of the deceased." Surely our solicitor should know that b) is not the case therefore this is void...?

The legislation is poorly worded, but the important bit is "living AS the husband or wife of the deceased" It does not mean that they have to be married, just that they are living as if they were.

It becomes a lot clearer if you read the legislation, as it lists who could make a claim from the estate. The current husband or wife is already included higher up the legislation, this part is for unmarried cohabitees.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1975/63

this is quite an interesting read:
http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2011/12/19/death-and-the-unmarried-couple-what-happens-to-the-house/

Yorkshireman99

MichelleUK wrote: »

The legislation is poorly worded, but the important bit is "living AS the husband or wife of the deceased" It does not mean that they have to be married, just that they are living as if they were.

It becomes a lot clearer if you read the legislation, as it lists who could make a claim from the estate. The current husband or wife is already included higher up the legislation, this part is for unmarried cohabitees.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1975/63

this is quite an interesting read:
http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2011/12/19/death-and-the-unmarried-couple-what-happens-to-the-house/

This does not seem to support the possible claimant's case.

phatwa

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

It down to her to prove she was living with him, which could be somewhat difficult if she is currently living at another address and has burnt all his paperwork.

It is interesting that you were able to glean the genders even though I didn't mention them:rotfl:

Was the deceased receiving the 25% single person's council tax rebate?

I don't know, and should ask the solicitor to check. Surely if he wasn't in receipt of the single person discount then she would be on record, somewhere at the council, for something or other?

ETA: The Administration is being sought by the deceased's sister, they have no children and were never married.

getmore4less

very remote part of the UK!)

that might need narrowing down the legislation is not the same across the all the UK.

phatwa

getmore4less wrote: »

very remote part of the UK!)

that might need narrowing down the legislation is not the same across the all the UK.

A remote part of England (mainland).