On-grid domestic battery storage

NigeWick

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I have only skimmed this,

They are going to pay you for use of the battery, and initial glance suggests it's quite a bit of money. Though the additional leccy savings seem optimistic.

Can't find the batt size, but need to go.

How much will it cost the EV owner to purchase this V2G? The one I've already seen takes 10-30 years to pay for itself.

Nissan's battery is 4.3kWh at £4,500 if memory serves, and it may well not....

Martyn1981

NigeWick wrote: »

How much will it cost the EV owner to purchase this V2G? The one I've already seen takes 10-30 years to pay for itself.

Nissan's battery is 4.3kWh at £4,500 if memory serves, and it may well not....

The article implies it's free:-

After installing a special charger in a customer’s home, the supplier will take over the management of the car’s battery, with owners able to set a minimum amount of charge they want for driving the next day. Ovo will then automatically trade electricity from the battery, topping it up during off-peak periods when power costs about 4p per kilowatt hour (kWh), and selling it at peak times for about four times as much.

but given how much the buy your own is, it may not be.

I've read a few articles now and none mention a cost for the charger, but none say it's free either?

silverwhistle

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Hiya, 3,100kWh would suggest consumption (as that's roughly the medium household figure). Ours is probably about that, perhaps high 2,000's, made up of roughly 1,500 import + 1,500 PV.

Thanks. My import is <1100 and gas import around 600 kwh which means I am currently on standing charge free tariffs at a much higher unit rate. Actual usage including PV is also rendered more complicated in that in addition to normal I divert power to domestic hot water and how do I cost that benefit?

I'll worry about changing if my GF ever moves in (she fills the kettle:eek:) or if/when I get an EV. I'm going nowhere near a spreadsheet unless those unlikely events take place!

Exiled_Tyke

silverwhistle wrote: »

Actual usage including PV is also rendered more complicated in that in addition to normal I divert power to domestic hot water and how do I cost that benefit?!

That should be costed at what the alternative would be if you weren't using the diverted electricity. i.e kWh of gas. I would also assume around 80% efficiency (i.e. take the units of electricity diverted and divide by 0.8) to calculate units of gas it would have used - most boilers are better than 85% now but then there is also lost heat in the pipes going to the tank.

If the additional gas useage means that you would be better off on a different gas tariff then you would need to calculate total (including the additional hot water heating) on the new tariff and deduct what you currently pay to calculate the current saving!

zeupater

Hi All

If it was a good offer then it'd be open to anyone with a battery ... to me it looks like the benefits are far too one sided for us to even consider ...

When whatever offer on the table equates to either below £150/kWh of usable storage to us, or the net position results in a guaranteed lower price/kWh than we are able to obtain on the open-market then I'll start to be interested - until then the industry can come up with whatever get-rich pyramid scheme they can think of ... there's always somebody who'll ignore all warnings & believe it's a good idea !

HTH
Z

Martyn1981

zeupater wrote: »

Hi All

If it was a good offer then it'd be open to anyone with a battery ... to me it looks like the benefits are far too one sided for us to even consider ...

HTH
Z

My thoughts too, so a wait and see policy will be good here.

I've now had a better read of the site and found something very interesting, good or bad, depending on how I think it through:-

The FAQs state this:

What is the Export Credit on my statement?

In order to provide grid balancing and energy trading services, your battery will sometimes import and then export power from the grid. On your statement, this will appear as though you’ve bought more energy than you’ve used. The Export Credit reimburses you for this energy so you are only billed for the energy you actually use in your home. It also credits you for any surplus solar energy which is exported to the grid.

How is my Export Credit calculated?

The Export Credit is calculated at the same rate that you pay for your energy. We take the volume of energy which has flowed through your export meter since your last statement and multiply this by your OVO Energy plan unit rate. For example, if your export meter shows 100 kWh of energy has been exported, and your retail rate is 14.7 p/kWh, then your Export Credit will equal 100 *0.147 = £14.70

Now that suggests to me that all export is credited at 14.7p/kWh.

So I currently export about 2,800kWh pa and get paid for about 2,100 at 3.3p/kWh, so £411 v's £70.

Or assuming I use about 900kWh more thanks to the battery, then perhaps £297 more income, plus increased leccy saving of 900 x 12p* = £108.

* I've used 12p since that's what I pay now, so it's false economy to increase savings by increasing price.


So that's the plus side. But, they operate this credit system for exports to make up for the added cost of imported units that 'they' import for grid balancing ..... which sounds fine, till I thought about battery efficiency.

What if they import 1,000kWh, then discharge 900kWh (10% losses?), doesn't that mean that import clocks up £147, but export credit is £132.30, giving you a net loss/cost of £14.70 on your bill?

All of this is total speculation, but I've put my name down to learn more, though as mentioned previously, if I was going to be part of something like this, then I'd want a big Powerwall II, with 5kWh or so, of use reserved for me.


To all, I'm not trying to be positive nor negative about this particular scheme. I think the idea is fascinating, so something to watch as storage settles in to the UK.

ard123en

Anyone tested the sofar batteries really tempted

NigeWick

Martyn1981 wrote: »

The article implies it's free

No doubt if so there'll be a catch in what they charge for your electricity and you pay for theirs....

Think I'll stick with Tesla Powerwall 2 and Zappi EV charger to go with my solar panels.

Martyn1981

Doubling of global renewable capacity by 2030 could drive 66% storage cost reduction, IRENA says

The International Renewable Energy Agency calculates that storage capacity could triple by 2030 if current renewable energy capacity doubles, with battery prices potentially driven down by 66% from current levels.

Battery storage technology used in stationary applications could be as much as 66% cheaper by 2030 provided the current capacity of renewable energy installed globally doubles, finds a new report by the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA).

The IRENA report, titled Electricity Storage and Renewables: Costs and Markets to 2030, also found that the installed base of global storage capacity could triple by 2030 if renewable growth trajectory was maintained, while battery-specific storage could enjoy a 17-fold increase.

Personally, I can't see how RE capacity can't double far sooner than that. PV deployment has been doubling every 2 yrs (about 40% increase year on year) so that's an easy one, though wind will be a little slower, but overall I'd have thought the world will have twice the RE capacity of today in 5yrs time, perhaps.

Regardless, keep one eye on those batt prices, Marty wants a Powerwall!

zeupater

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Doubling of global renewable capacity by 2030 could drive 66% storage cost reduction, IRENA says



Personally, I can't see how RE capacity can't double far sooner than that. PV deployment has been doubling every 2 yrs (about 40% increase year on year) so that's an easy one, though wind will be a little slower, but overall I'd have thought the world will have twice the RE capacity of today in 5yrs time, perhaps.

Regardless, keep one eye on those batt prices, Marty wants a Powerwall!

If the guys that make batteries say that they'll fall fast, I'd tend to think they know what they're talking about ... however, there's a vast difference between the manufacturing costs of batteries and the price which battery storage systems are currently being sold at ... Current li-ion costs/kWh suggest somebody's making huge margins somewhere in the supply chain ...

HTH
Z