Honed Slate Two Piece Hearth - Poor Match

Davesnave

EDIT : This thread is about my experience when I ordered a two piece hearth from M C Slates / World of Stone in Bow, Mid-Devon. I have only named them now 09/12/16 after failing to achieve an acceptable match between the two pieces of this natural product.

Does anyone know about working with slate? I want to know if I'm being given a load of guff regarding a made to measure hearth I purchased from a local stone yard.

The hearth, in two pieces, was collected last Friday, but as soon as we unloaded, it became clear that the smaller rear piece was splitting along the bedding planes. Soon, we had 3 completely separate rear pieces of differing thickness!

We rang the stone company, who said they would cut another piece as a matter of urgency. Sadly, when I picked this new piece up today, I immediately noticed it wasn't very like the one it replaced, and I said so.

"Oh, it's a natural product," says the seller, "we never know what it will look like when we start honing it, so you must expect variations. It is green slate, same as the other piece."

"I just thought it was obvious that we'd want a match to the other part of the hearth." I replied.

"Ah, but you didn't ask for that when you rang to say there was a problem."

So, you see, it's apparently all my fault that the two pieces are only alike in colour and not markings. The larger front part is mottled attractively and the rear part is very plain, so the join between the two is going to be quite noticeable. The original pair matched.

As we have major works going on, the hearth must go in now, so I've fitted the rear portion and given up on the idea of matching. The wood burner will cover quite a lot of the rear section anyway, and this is a First World problem.

However, we were due to spend a hefty amount on stone flooring with this company after Christmas. With the attitude they've shown today, that's now looking unlikely. I just want to check if I'm judging them harshly by taking my custom elsewhere.

Is working with this 'natural product' so unpredictable?

choille

No, they were not helpful and should of offered a complete matched replacement.

Sadly there is a lot of couldn't care less attitude and it's creeping into a lot of businesses. You should complain if you receive unsatisfactory service, but you often have to speak to management.

System

It sounds like they are being a bit off tbh, if they are cutting the slate they should have offered a match, I've done a few slate hearths and if you get a nice slate with lots of variation it's nicer than identical bits anyway but it really should be your decision - what company was it? I've had bad dealings with one where their tolerances were way outside of the limits they said (20mm slate was less than 10mm in some areas so couldn't use it for the hearth) ended up forcing them to refund the whole lot (about 600 quid worth) because they started with all the natural product nonsense

Davesnave

the_r_sole wrote: »

It sounds like they are being a bit off tbh, if they are cutting the slate they should have offered a match, I've done a few slate hearths and if you get a nice slate with lots of variation it's nicer than identical bits anyway but it really should be your decision - what company was it? I've had bad dealings with one where their tolerances were way outside of the limits they said (20mm slate was less than 10mm in some areas so couldn't use it for the hearth) ended up forcing them to refund the whole lot (about 600 quid worth) because they started with all the natural product nonsense

It was a local company in Mid Devon: M C Slates /World of Stone.

But what I really want to know is whether the final look of the piece can be
determined to some extent before the honing process, because they're suggesting it can't.

If it can't then I have nothing to grumble about. If it can, they're giving me BS.

Kiran

Yes and no, it is a natural product however the two sections should have come either from the same larger price or from the same batch. I'm assuming you had I made in two parts for handling and installation reasons rather than it being so big it couldn't come out of one piece?

As someone has said above, they really should have taken both parts back.

DaftyDuck

Yes, it's a natural product, and yes, it's difficult to predict how stone will behave before you cut it. But, in most cases, one or two cuts will tell you how good the stone is. I doubt it cut cleanly when it was made.

My concern would be that the remaining original section, if from the same source, will also be fragmenting soon.

All my experience of stone and slate knapping comes from my youth in Ireland, making roofing slabs for a barn, and dry stone walling. I'm sure a real expert might tell by looking, but even I could tell on breaking which stones could be cut cleanly again, and which would start to crumble.

If they have a reasonably good reputation, tell them, and still get your flooring from them: they'll know you are a fussy blighter, and may go the extra mile to sort you out well.

However, I agree with the others who suggested they should have replaced both parts.

lush_walrus

To be fair to them they were working blindly as you had the piece you wanted matching with you.

Personally, and we have state in all of our bathrooms and our kitchen, I like the differences between one piece and another most of all. To me it shows it is a natural product rather than a perfect man made slate like product, so partially what they are saying would apply to me if I were their customer. Yes I would want it the same colour, but other variations would not bother me.

Have they seen your issue? Maybe you need to photograph and show them rather than describe? I can imagine they do get calls from numpties asking why something isn't identical to something else comparing it to a man made product so it may be their default comment. And while that isn't in your case, a photo may explain more than words.

Davesnave

lush_walrus wrote: »

To be fair to them they were working blindly as you had the piece you wanted matching with you.
True, though if this was going to be a problem, it was for them, as the 'experts,' to tell us. They're 45 minutes away and it was Friday pm, but I could have delivered both pieces to them on Saturday morning.

Have they seen your issue? Maybe you need to photograph and show them rather than describe? I can imagine they do get calls from numpties asking why something isn't identical to something else comparing it to a man made product so it may be their default comment. And while that isn't in your case, a photo may explain more than words.

I sent them a link to the same photo as shown in Post 11.

Heedtheadvice

It is down to them to give you a good product/finish and that includes match. My local supplier would have asked for both pieces back. If one delaminates then the other needs checked as if they matched they are probably from close bits of stone with similar characteristics.

Even when I have gone back to my supplier (unfortunately nowhere near you OP) to get more slate for an addition they have done their best to get a good match.
Yes it is a natural product with variations, it is not all by any means identical but pieces can be selected to look good together.
As posted already as it is covered in part by a woodburner my greater concern would be the potential delamination of the front piece. Get back on to them, explain that concern so they hopefully will agree to inspect it and be made aware of you potential problem at the outset. They are after all the 'experts' !

Davesnave

Heedtheadvice wrote: »

Yes it is a natural product with variations, it is not all by any means identical but pieces can be selected to look good together.

As posted already as it is covered in part by a woodburner my greater concern would be the potential delamination of the front piece. Get back on to them, explain that concern so they hopefully will agree to inspect it and be made aware of you potential problem at the outset. They are after all the 'experts' !

The front part is due to be in the next hour and the fire will be fitted on Friday. My project manager isn't willing to deviate from that, now she's got all her ducks in a row! Out here in the sticks we grab tradespeople if they offer us a slot. The fire/chimney lining is coming from somewhere even further away.
.
But I hear what you're saying and I've given the front part a good dose of looking-at. I don't think the two original parts were cut from the same sheet because they weren't identical, just more like each other than they are now.

I'll probably write to the stone company expressing my concerns now I know a little more. It certainly has been useful reading the comments here.

Davesnave

I fitted the hearth......then decided I wasn't going to take this lying down and ripped it out again! This is what it looked like:



I have cancelled the fitting of the fire and emailed the owners of the stone yard this picture and a resume of the events that led up to it.

We'll see where this goes next....

Oh, and I've re-thought the flooring in my 30m2 conservatory, so I won't be needing the stone tiles I'd planned- for anyway