Debt picked up by bank after 3 and a half years of no contact. Looking for advice

treblec

Just as a weird update to the thread because at this moment there is no update as such.

I sent the letter above off, again many thanks Sourcrates, but didn't manage to get it sent until around Xmas time because my printer gave up and i had to use the one at work (always something isn't it!).

So i'm assuming due to Xmas mail and holidays etc i wouldn't be expecting a reply for another week or 2. I simply thought i would post so as you all wouldn't think i had simply ignored your advice etc etc, i guess its just a waiting game for now.

treblec

Received a letter from Lloyds today that simply says Thank you for your recent communication, we enclose a copy of the application for the above credit card account.

They have enclosed a single page photocopy of the first page of the credit card acceptance form upon which is my wife's details as in name address etc, our (then) phone number and a box that was signed in to accept the card dated september 2003.

Nothing else has been included in the reply, no statement etc etc.

What i find even more bizzare is it was a platinum credit card and her stated annual income was 12K per annum!?

I was hoping to receive a statement etc showing where the money demanded comes from as in balance, extra charges etc etc.

Whats my next step?

Thanks.

fatbelly

Well, you still want the statements you requested as I understand that you still dispute the balance they are quoting.

In passing let's just note that the current response bears no relationship to their earlier response.

Now the question is whether the document they have supplied ('an application form') constitutes a consumer credit act agreement. It must contain the prescribed terms:

What are the Prescribed Terms that must be contained in the document as defined in section 61(1)(a) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and in Carey?

From Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 Schedule 6 are various Prescribed Terms that must be included and the three relevant ones
are under Clauses 3, 4 and 5:

Credit Limit (3). A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

Rate of interest (4). A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement.

Repayments (5). A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments

Does it contain these?

treblec

Thanks Fatbelly. I too was a little confused at the apparent dismissive first reply only to now offer up something in the second reply.

Sorry for the lengthy reply, but i would just like to get accross any info that may be relevant.

The actual copy of the form that was sent is a Lloyds TSB Platinum credit card acceptance form and agreement. Thats exactly as its worded on the form, even thought the accompanying letter says its an "application form".

There does not appear to be any of the above mentioned in the photocopy they have sent.

The form is split into 6 sections as follows.

Section 1. tickbox to confirm what card you want i.e mastercard or visa

Section 2. Personal details. My wifes, name, address, DOB, phone number and account number

Section 3. Asking if you want an additional card holder.

Section 4. Selecting additional benefits such as payment protection cover or card protection cover (Lloyds Sentinel cover at the time)

Section 5. Signature box for your card with a note above it saying that you are applying for a LTSB platinum credit card, and also words to the effect that if the application is accepted then this forms the agreement on the conditions overleaf (although there is no overleaf as its a single page photocopy)

Section 6. Offer to list any balances from other cards that you would like to transfer over.

And you're right, as i said at the start i appreciate that my wife has ran a debt up and in no way do i simply want to wrangle out of any oblilgations, rather i would simply like to see how such an unseemly amount has been demanded as owed.

If this is the case then i will make arrangement to try our very best to pay off the debt every month until it is cleared, but i just want to pay what is owed and not perhaps additional charges that have been added by who knows (or indeed if any), surely thats only fair?

Thanks again for your help and patience, as always its much appreciated.

sourcrates

Sounds to me like the terms are missing then :

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

The above would then apply to your agreement, in my opinion.

treblec

Thanks Sourcrates.


I'm thinking they will now be waiting for some sort of response to their last letter.


Would I be right in quoting the above in this response or wording it entirely different.


I still have no statements from them for example and my first request would simply be for them to show me how this debt has accrued to the amount they are asking for simply so I know that its correct what is to be paid back.


Also with their first reply they sent the postal order back to me, although I don't know if it was cashed/used, so would I send another postal order off at the same time?


I feel as if my initial letter asking for my CCA still stands as they've not given me it and then fobbed me off with a card acceptance sheet as some sort of proof of the amount asked for.


I feel as if they're running me round in circles but the onus is forever on me to push them.


As always many thanks for the responses and advice, I would be more than a little lost without it all, I just feel so frustrated with them, asking for what should be straight forward info and getting the brush off.

fatbelly

treblec wrote: »

I feel as if my initial letter asking for my CCA still stands as they've not given me it and then fobbed me off with a card acceptance sheet as some sort of proof of the amount asked for.

Yes that's the main point. I wouldn't get into a legal argument around s127(3) at this point, although I think you would have a defence under that section as long as the agreement was started before April 2007, if they started a court claim.

As what you want is a statement to show how the balance has been calculated, it is probably worth writing and asking for that

treblec

Thanks again I'll do that and enclose another £1 postal order to make sure.

As an additional note I have just found another piece of paper next to the envelope the last reply was sent in that I didn't see initially. It's the next page to the acceptance form upon which a reference to the credit card charges are mentioned as in purchase and cash withdrawal Apr rates.

Credit limit is not mentioned as a particular amount just a note saying they can change it if they like.

I'm not entirely sure what your last point was regarding debtors obligation I'm so sorry so I don't know own if that's included on this last sheet.

Apologies for only just bringing this to your attention but my wife initially opened the letter as it's addressed to her and I was passed it that day when I got home from work but without this last sheet.

I suppose it doesn't make a massive difference at this stage as I'm really after statements but I just want to be as honest as possible even if it does highlight my stupidity somewhat.

fatbelly

Don't send another £1 - that just confuses things. Your formal cca request was made properly the first time around and you are not allowed to make two within a month.

The separate sheet is OK I think (from the court cases a few years back) so they may have complied with the request. The last prescribed term is that it should say what payments are required - for a credit card a minimum payment as a £ or a % would be usual.

You're just making a normal request for them to prove the balance figure now

treblec

Thanks Fatbelly.


There was reference to the monthly payments on the second sheet so i guess they have everything covered apart from the credit limit.
I've drafted a very simple short letter to send, would something like this cover it or should I add anything else of note?


Dear Sir/Madam.

In response to your letter dated 5th January, enclosed within was a photocopy of the credit card acceptance form that I would have received at that time, although I am still without a statement and any reference to the credit limit of the above account .
Could you provide me with these, as per my initial request that shows the credit limit and how the balance owing has been accrued.
Yours.